ADHD Pill Faces High Hurdle in Europe as Stigma Persists • Hacker News Board

Re: ADHD Pill Faces High Hurdle in Europe as Stigma Persists

#91

Post by lutusp » Thu, Oct 10, 2013, 7:42 AM UTC

victorhooi wrote: post #90

lutusp wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Denying the existence of mental disorders is dangerous and harmful to those who indeed have these disorders. The people you're talking about aren't denying the existence of real disorders, they're denying the existence of phony disorders -- and there are plenty. Asperger's, popular a few years ago, is now recognized as a myth and has been removed from the DSM. Until the mid-'70s homosexuality was listed among the p…

Asperger's wasn't "removed" from the DSM-IV, as you claim - it was folded into the broader category of "autism-spectrum disorders".

> Asperger's wasn't "removed" from the DSM-IV, as you claim

First, I never said any such thing. Asperger's was removed from DSM-5, not DSM-IV.

Second, Asperger's was removed from the current DSM, i.e. DSM-5. It was removed because, as one of the voting committee members said, "it's not a evidence-based term."

Asperger's wasn't "folded into" anything. It was recognized as a condition that was so vaguely defined that it could mean anything or nothing. What was folded in the the autism spectrum are those individuals who actually want continued treatment for something less romantic and more stigmatizing.

It wasn't Asperger's that was folded into the autism spectrum, it was those people who, after losing the chance to have a mental illness diagnosis in common with Bill Gates and Albert Einstein, still plan to have anything to do with psychiatry or psychology.

Re: ADHD Pill Faces High Hurdle in Europe as Stigma Persists

#92

Post by wpietri » Thu, Oct 10, 2013, 8:30 PM UTC

com2kid wrote: post #81

wpietri wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are interesting facts, but I don't think they prove anything about existence of ADHD as an actual disease. Lower-than-average height is also correlated with many diseases but it isn't a disease on its own.

The portion of the brain associated with self control is smaller in people with a mental disorder that is characterized by a lack of self control. Now obviously proving the entire causation thing here is pretty hard, but, if someone is missing their eyes, and that person is blind, there might just be a causative relationship happening. To put it in perspective ( http://www.medscape.org/viewarticle/549973 ), 32% of pe…

I'm not our society is structured such that in many common circumstances, greater linearity is beneficial. I'm also not denying that there could be relationships between size of brain regions and various physical characteristics. And I'm certainly not denying your experiences.

What I'm questioning is constructing this as a mental disorder.

That's distinct from, say, psychosis. 100k years ago, being totally delusional would have been harmful. But there's no reason to think that most people classified as ADHD would have been at any disadvantage.

Again, come back to the height analogy (which you haven't addressed so far). There are obvious advantages in our society to being taller, including greater career success. Many short people hate being short. Does that mean there's something wrong with short people, or that they should all be treated with drugs as soon as we can diagnose Tallness Deficit Disorder?

Re: ADHD Pill Faces High Hurdle in Europe as Stigma Persists

#93

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 10, 2013, 8:30 PM UTC

com2kid wrote: post #81

wpietri wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are interesting facts, but I don't think they prove anything about existence of ADHD as an actual disease. Lower-than-average height is also correlated with many diseases but it isn't a disease on its own.

The portion of the brain associated with self control is smaller in people with a mental disorder that is characterized by a lack of self control. Now obviously proving the entire causation thing here is pretty hard, but, if someone is missing their eyes, and that person is blind, there might just be a causative relationship happening. To put it in perspective ( http://www.medscape.org/viewarticle/549973 ), 32% of pe…

[deleted]

Re: ADHD Pill Faces High Hurdle in Europe as Stigma Persists

#94

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 10, 2013, 8:30 PM UTC

com2kid wrote: post #81

wpietri wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are interesting facts, but I don't think they prove anything about existence of ADHD as an actual disease. Lower-than-average height is also correlated with many diseases but it isn't a disease on its own.

The portion of the brain associated with self control is smaller in people with a mental disorder that is characterized by a lack of self control. Now obviously proving the entire causation thing here is pretty hard, but, if someone is missing their eyes, and that person is blind, there might just be a causative relationship happening. To put it in perspective ( http://www.medscape.org/viewarticle/549973 ), 32% of pe…

[deleted]

Re: ADHD Pill Faces High Hurdle in Europe as Stigma Persists

#95

Post by com2kid » Fri, Oct 11, 2013, 8:23 AM UTC

wpietri wrote: post #92

com2kid wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The portion of the brain associated with self control is smaller in people with a mental disorder that is characterized by a lack of self control. Now obviously proving the entire causation thing here is pretty hard, but, if someone is missing their eyes, and that person is blind, there might just be a causative relationship happening. To put it in perspective ( http://www.medscape.org/viewarticle/549973 ), 32% of pe…

I'm not our society is structured such that in many common circumstances, greater linearity is beneficial. I'm also not denying that there could be relationships between size of brain regions and various physical characteristics. And I'm certainly not denying your experiences. What I'm questioning is constructing this as a mental disorder. That's distinct from, say, psychosis. 100k years ago, being totally delusional…

Actually below a minimum height, treatment options are given to parents to help their children grow taller. There is a well estab

I also feel that you are tending towards the naturalist fallacy here. Just because something is natural doesn't mean that it is good (or neutral). Mother nature doesn't care.

As for ADHD existing 100k years ago, a large percentage of ADHD cases are in children born to mother's who used drugs during pregnancy. (Obviously not all, but there is a very large %). One cannot discount at least some modern factors being responsible for some percentage of ADHD cases.