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Nicotine as a useful stimulant

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Re: Nicotine as a useful stimulant

#91
post #64

If nicotine is supposedly "not highly addictive," what heretofore obscure, hideous compounds are lurking in cigarettes that accounts for their legendary addictiveness? MAOIs? True, they give withdrawal symptoms. But despite being a widely used pharmaceutical, to my knowledge no MAOI-only drug has seen anything resembling the abuse patterns of tobacco. The hand-wavy "other compounds" that the article mentions and then…

I've never heard someone talk about MAOIs in isolation before. You do realize the point of these is to affect other drugs right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tranylcypromine (brand name Parnate) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenelzine (brand name Nardil)

MAOIs are the last resort anti-depressants. There are two left on the US and they are extremely highly-regarded in effectiveness. They're more effective than the typical SSRIs of today but they are sadly not as prescribed today due to over-blown fears of interactions. It's a case of newer not always being better.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tranylcypromine

They work by preventing the breakdown of dopamine, serotonin, etc. therefore increasing levels in your brain.

In fact the gold standard for anti-anxiety is an MAOI, Nardil, which has additional inhibition leading to increased levels of GABA (the target of alcohol/benzodiazepines.)

In fact two medications in my daily mix with Nardil are on that list and it's such a pain dealing with ignorant pharmacists that see a warning on my their screen and refuse to call my doctor to confirm their combined safety, even though he's been practicing for 50 years (really.)

I urge you to read the various reports from real users confirming the safety even with the supposedly not safe to mix.

The problem is that most of the recommendations in the list were added before precise measuring of tyramine levels in foods was developed and list is one big CYA. To make matters worse is that nobody has made a significant effort to do real testing to define safe levels so most users are left to responsible trial and error.

I.E. read this about pepperoni, debunking the conventional "wisdom":

> BACKGROUND: Continuous refinement of the monoamine oxidase inhibitor (MAOI) diet has resulted in much reduced and simplified recommendations that attempt to balance safety and practicality. In the spirit of evidence-based practice, dietary restrictions should be based on carefully documented case reports and valid tyramine analyses. Residual concerns have focused on combination foods such as pizza and a variety of soy products. We determined the tyramine content of pizzas and a variety of soy products in order to refine dietary recommendations for use with MAOIs. METHOD: High-pressure liquid chromatography analysis of tyramine content was performed on a variety of pizzas, soy sauces, and other soybean products. A tyramine level of 6 mg or less was considered safe. RESULTS: No significant tyramine levels were found in any of the pizzas, including those with double pepperoni and double cheese. Marked variability was found in soy products, including clinically significant tyramine levels in tofu when stored for a week and high tyramine content in one of the soy sauces. CONCLUSION: Pizzas from large chain commercial outlets are safe for consumption with MAOIs. However, caution must be exercised if ordering pizzas from smaller outlets or gourmet pizzas known to contain aged cheeses. All soybean products should be avoided, especially soy sauce and tofu. Individualized counseling and continuous surveillance of compliance are still essential. >

Bonus:

Tranylcypromine enhancement of nicotine self-administration.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17412372

The monoamine oxidase inhibitor phenelzine enhances the discriminative stimulus effect of nicotine in rats.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17912044

Re: Nicotine as a useful stimulant

#92
post #90
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In an attempt to quit smoking I just discovered the vaporization method and WOW -- I'm so impressed. Its actually enjoyable in the way that smoking is enjoyable, and the stimulant kick is very real.

I started vaping this year. I love it. I've got a usb passthrough that just plugs in and I can sit in a co-working space and smoke and work. It gets some funny looks, but also starts some fun conversations.

Agree about the funny looks. I was on the 1 train last weekend, and someone took an e-cigarette out of her purse and started smoking. My first thought was, "OMG this is so illegal, I can't believe someone could think it's OK to light up on the train!" Then I realized it was an e-cigarette.

I imagine e-cigarette smokers must get this stunned reaction quite frequently.

Re: Nicotine as a useful stimulant

#93
post #64

If nicotine is supposedly "not highly addictive," what heretofore obscure, hideous compounds are lurking in cigarettes that accounts for their legendary addictiveness? MAOIs? True, they give withdrawal symptoms. But despite being a widely used pharmaceutical, to my knowledge no MAOI-only drug has seen anything resembling the abuse patterns of tobacco. The hand-wavy "other compounds" that the article mentions and then…

I've never heard someone talk about MAOIs in isolation before. You do realize the point of these is to affect other drugs right?

Apologies for my poor grammar, I am unable to edit to fix.

Re: Nicotine as a useful stimulant

#94
post #6

I'm very sad this article doesn't mention the most interesting quality of nicotine: depending on how it is administered, it will act either as a sedative, or a stimulant! There's not (m)any other molecules out there that do this, so it's quite a novel research target!

Nicotine is being explored to replace stimulants:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotinic_agonist#Drug_developm...

The development of nicotinic acetylcholine receptor agonists began in the early 1990s after the discovery of nicotine’s positive effects on animal memory.[2][3] The development of nicotinic acetylcholine receptor agonists has come a long way since then. The nicotinic acetylcholine receptor agonist are gaining increasing attention as drug candidates for multiple central nervous system disorders such as Alzheimer's disease, schizophrenia, attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) and nicotine addiction.[24][25]

http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130036

Interestingly enough, some pharmaceutical companies (like Targacept) have caught onto this phenomenon, and they have already started manufacturing nicotinic drugs (agonists of nicotinic receptors), which are to be marketed for the treatment of ADHD. They are trying to make nictoine more "safe"...

These so called nicotinic drugs, such as AZD3480 (Ispronicline), are still in the clinical trial phase. In fact, the drug is in phase trial II, which means that it has passed the so-called primary "safety test", and there were no alarming adverse reactions. See: http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00683462.

These nicotinic drugs are a refreshing new technology, because they indirectly act on dopamine through the release of another neurotransmitter, acetylcholine. These drugs are much unlike classic stimulants, which act upon the dopamine reward pathway directly, increasing abuse potential.

I decided to put the last question to the test. For the past week, I weaned myself of the Ritalin, and I bought transdermal nicotine patches. Bear in mind that I have never smoked a cigarette in my life, and none of my immediate family members smoke! So, what I did was highly risky as nicotine has been dubbed as a "highly addictive" drug. ...

On these so-called "dangerous" 5 mg patches, not only was I able to focus better and sleep better, but my mood was much more stable. Also, the "come-down" is nothing like that which I experienced with psychostimulants (more specifically, Ritalin). Now, I am not saying that we should all start smoking. But, I'm saying that we should keep an open mind and to keep our therapeutic options open.

Re: Nicotine as a useful stimulant

#95
post #27

I can't imagine life without stimulants. I hope to move off into the woods one day and live a completely natural lifestyle for a while. Reset myself. No caffeine, no nicotine, no amphetamines. Just me, a dog, and a nice ranch property in the middle of nowhere. Meanwhile, nicotine is a staple of my day-to-day. I quit smoking a long time ago, now I stick to Swedish snus and vaping. For a period I was chewing gum too. D…

In an attempt to quit smoking I just discovered the vaporization method and WOW -- I'm so impressed. Its actually enjoyable in the way that smoking is enjoyable, and the stimulant kick is very real.

I also quit smoking by using a vaporizer. So did my brother, my mother, my step-father, and my friends. My cigarette consumption plummeted after I started using it... but it wasn't even a tiny struggle. There are some heavy-weights lobbying against the products, which is unfortunate because my vaporizer was the only thing that actually helped me quit smoking.

[shameless plug]

I had so much success with the product that I actually started a company selling them. I found that the market was much too complicated for somebody like my parents to enter, so a partner and I focused in on one great product for new users. You can check it out... If anybody has any feedback / constructive criticism / questions, please reach out to me at sean [at] vapesecret.com

http://www.vapesecret.com

Re: Nicotine as a useful stimulant

#96

I can't imagine life without stimulants. I hope to move off into the woods one day and live a completely natural lifestyle for a while. Reset myself. No caffeine, no nicotine, no amphetamines. Just me, a dog, and a nice ranch property in the middle of nowhere. Meanwhile, nicotine is a staple of my day-to-day. I quit smoking a long time ago, now I stick to Swedish snus and vaping. For a period I was chewing gum too. D…

> I can't imagine life without stimulants. I hope to move off into the woods one day and live a completely natural lifestyle for a while.

Funny way to put it, because human beings have been smoking something for as long as they've walked on earth, as evidenced by older cultures, so it's arguable what would be "natural".

Re: Nicotine as a useful stimulant

#97
post #76
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never heard someone talk about MAOIs in isolation before. You do realize the point of these is to affect other drugs right?

I believe they can be used in isolation, because by suppressing/slowing the oxidative metabolism of synaptic neurotransmitters, they can be used to compensate for low baseline levels by extending their active lifespan. The main reason they're not used is that better & more selective releasing agent/reuptake inhibitors exist, and MAOIs have potentially fatal interactions with a huge variety of different substances (in…

Right. I suppose I took it for granted that brains are big ol' drug factories and assumed everyone was on the same page. The point is the MAOI isn't a used as neurotransmitter, but to affect the metabolism of monoamine transmitters—now matter how they got there.

Re: Nicotine as a useful stimulant

#98
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never heard someone talk about MAOIs in isolation before. You do realize the point of these is to affect other drugs right?

I've mostly heard of them in the context of treatment for depression (in a lower-division biopsych course, not personal experience). My understanding was that they'd be taken on their own, and the Wiki article doesn't obviously disagree. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoamine_oxidase_inhibitor "Monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOIs) are chemicals which inhibit the activity of the monoamine oxidase enzyme family. They h…

That's my understanding as well, but the salient point is MAOIs work indirectly by increasing the effectiveness of some neurotransmitters—including dopamine, which nicotine increases the level of.

Re: Nicotine as a useful stimulant

#99
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've mostly heard of them in the context of treatment for depression (in a lower-division biopsych course, not personal experience). My understanding was that they'd be taken on their own, and the Wiki article doesn't obviously disagree. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoamine_oxidase_inhibitor "Monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOIs) are chemicals which inhibit the activity of the monoamine oxidase enzyme family. They h…

That's my understanding as well, but the salient point is MAOIs work indirectly by increasing the effectiveness of some neurotransmitters—including dopamine, which nicotine increases the level of.

Sure; reasonable, just unclear.

Re: Nicotine as a useful stimulant

#100
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In an attempt to quit smoking I just discovered the vaporization method and WOW -- I'm so impressed. Its actually enjoyable in the way that smoking is enjoyable, and the stimulant kick is very real.

I also quit smoking by using a vaporizer. So did my brother, my mother, my step-father, and my friends. My cigarette consumption plummeted after I started using it... but it wasn't even a tiny struggle. There are some heavy-weights lobbying against the products, which is unfortunate because my vaporizer was the only thing that actually helped me quit smoking. [shameless plug] I had so much success with the product th…

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