Live data from Hacker News

World record solar cell with 44.7% efficiency

phys.org

91–100 of 127 posts

Re: World record solar cell with 44.7% efficiency

#91

Good on them. In reality, however, fuel from the sun is free and we have unlimited land. Getting the cost down and economies of scale are what everyone is really focussed on.

From a policy perspecive, land is probably one of the biggest factors limiting large-scale PV installations in the U.S.

Basically, every square meter of land in the U.S. is already being used for something that people will defend, even if it is sparse desert land. Sparse desert land is a natural ecosystem, and there are many people and nonprofits who work hard to protect natural ecosystems from disruption by man.

Re: World record solar cell with 44.7% efficiency

#92
post #65
post #58

Guys, anyone knows the sense of "measured at a concentration of 297 suns."? is sufficient much less energy to transform the earth in a giant BBQ.

My question too - I wonder how it would perform in normal sunlight.

Concentrator cells make a number of tradeoffs in order to make their performance as high as possible (and keep from melting, etc.). I would guess around 22% efficient in one-sun AM1.0; that's about what other concentrator cells in this upper tier do.

If it's slightly cloudy, I could see efficiencies dropping to the single digits, as each of these cells is actually four different cells all wired in series, each sensitive to different wavelengths of light. If the blue drops out, the corresponding cell on the top of the stack acts as a resistor (and it can even burn out, being so thin).

Solar cell efficiency records (particularly for concentrator applications) are like discovering new transuranic elements- extremely useful and interesting at first, then significantly diminishing returns.

Re: World record solar cell with 44.7% efficiency

#93

For those wondering about the significance of this announcement: As several people have noted, what matters for solar PV isn't efficiency but cost per Watt . The maximum available energy is 1W/meter^2 at ground. Single-layer PV efficiency is on the order of about 40%. Mutliple-layer cells can reach a maximum of around 80%. Even with existing efficiencies, the land space necessary to dedicate to solar power for all el…

Is long term storage necessary?

Couldn't a coal powered plant be fitted with solar to create a hybrid solution where coal burning kicks in when the clouds come out?

edit: The idea being that you can piggy back on the infrastructure already in place at power plants?

Re: World record solar cell with 44.7% efficiency

#94

Is the composition of this one solar cell from 4 subcells of any significance? Is it just 4 for a reason?

Imagine you have commissioned 100 different manufacturers to make you 100 different arbitrary Lego knockoffs; each manufacturer picks a color, thickness, and a peg pitch (spacing between the pegs). Each manufacturer only makes exactly one kind. Some manufacturers' legos will fit together, and some won't.

Some manufacturers make theirs very cheaply and in mass quantities, and some will take years to deliver a very small number at very high prices.

As a solar cell designer, you want to make a stack of these legos to form a rainbow. It has to go from blue on the top to red on the bottom, and it has to stack together without too much force.

Think of a brand-X terrestrial Home Depot crystalline solar cell as just yellow lego bricks. They aren't the whole rainbow (and green would actually be a closer match to sunlight if you could only pick one color) but they're cheap.

Gallium Arsenide legos are green, but they're really hard to make. Germanium legos are red, and it turns out that the green Gallium Arsenides fit on them really well. Yellow Silicon ones, on the other hand, don't fit well with either.

So that brings us to two. Indium Phosphide legos are blue and so are Gallium Phosphide legos. But neither of those fit well on the green Gallium Arsenide; one's lego pins are too dense, the other too sparse. It took a long time for a manufacturer to come up with the right blend, thickness, and color, but they were able to come up with a lego that is blue, made from a mix called Indium Gallium Phosphide, and stacks nicely on top of the green Gallium Arsenide. So that's 3.

The fourth layer might be Indium Gallium Arsenide Nitride (let's just call it orange), shoved between the existing layers; somehow making a mix of a good quality lego, but one that makes the right color, right thickness, and right pin pitch.

Now to translate to real physics: The pin pitch is the lattice parameter of each of these crystals, or the distance between individual atoms. If you attempt to epitaxially grow (grow on top of in the same fashion) a different compound than what already exists there, it tends to work ok if the lattice parameters are close. If they're radically different, you can get growth but it's highly disordered and ends up making a lousy layer and a lousy solar cell.

Re: World record solar cell with 44.7% efficiency

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real reason is, all the solar cell numbers are fake. Its dark around here (and everywhere else) an average of 50% of the time. In space, its bright (brighter than on the ground) around 90% of the time. Terrestrial solar cells MUST account for this when comparing efficiencies. So this new cell is 23% efficient, versus 46% if deployed orbitally, before accounting for the increased solar intensity in space. Elon Mus…

So this new cell is 23% efficient, versus 46% if deployed orbitally That isn't how you calculate conversion efficiency. If there is no input to convert, you don't count that as a conversion loss.

Exactly. So lets talk about a different, important number. Watts per dollar per day. The only one your accountant/investor cares about. Its something like double or triple for space-based solar cells, if you can deploy them efficiently.

Re: World record solar cell with 44.7% efficiency

#96

Odd that the figure says that the efficiency was 44.7% +/- 3.1% -- given the big error bar, how could they say they'd increased 1% in 4 months? Measure it again, who knows what you'll get!

ERROR BARS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY

+1 for the Futurama reference

Re: World record solar cell with 44.7% efficiency

#97
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to elaborate?

The +/- 3.1% is relative to the efficiency. The way to read it is: 0.447 +/- 3.1%, where now it's more obvious that it translates to more like 0.447 +/- 0.014.

Even if it really means 0.447 +/- 0.014, an increase of 0.01 is not very significant!

Re: World record solar cell with 44.7% efficiency

#98

For those wondering about the significance of this announcement: As several people have noted, what matters for solar PV isn't efficiency but cost per Watt . The maximum available energy is 1W/meter^2 at ground. Single-layer PV efficiency is on the order of about 40%. Mutliple-layer cells can reach a maximum of around 80%. Even with existing efficiencies, the land space necessary to dedicate to solar power for all el…

Regarding storage, I've read some interesting things about the potential of electric vehicles here. If every car were electric, that's a massive array of large efficient batteries connected to the grid. If utility companies charge varying amounts at different times, depending on supply, you could imagine a smart charger for your car whereby you buy electricity when it's cheap, store it in the battery, and sell it back for a profit when the price goes up (or just use the power in your home, reducing the amount you buy from the grid - the effect is the same). The utility company is effectively renting your electric car battery as short term storage.

Re: World record solar cell with 44.7% efficiency

#99

So when does solar power become cheap and efficient enough that it's a real game changer? It seems like the numbers have gotten a lot better in recent years, at least in terms of efficiency.

It's already just $500/kw for reputable Chinese cells. Assume you get on average 5 hours of usable sunlight a day and electricity is 10 cents/kwh. The 1 kw panel will give you 5 * 365 * .10 = $182.50 worth of electricity. So that gives you a $182.50/$500 * 100 = 36.5% annual return on your investment.

(I realize I'm simplifying here, storage blah blah). The elements declining slowest in cost are installation and regulatory hurdle jumping.

Re: World record solar cell with 44.7% efficiency

#100
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worse than that. There's no room for a single doubling of 44% efficiency. The theoretical maximum for multi-junction concentrator cells is about 86%: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shockley–Queisser_limit For single junction cells it's a mere 33%.

One way of counting efficiency is by looking at waste. In that view, a 44% efficient process becoming "twice as efficient" means that it's half as wasteful, not that it's 88% efficient. In other words, a 44% efficient process which doubles in efficiency by this measure is now 72% efficient.

And a 44% efficient process that quadruples its efficiency is now 86% efficient (ignoring whether 100% is achievable, etc).

You've been hanging out with marketing too long. ;)

Post reply on HN