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Business Insider CTO Forced to Resign Following Twitter Firestorm

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Re: Business Insider CTO Forced to Resign Following Twitter Firestorm

#91

Post by jcromartie »

untog wrote: post #22
Karunamon wrote: post #15

Was this just the last straw? I ask because the tweet pictured in the article seems fairly reasonable. Calling out a coworker for insulting you on twitter doesn't seem particularly objectionable.

Very much the last straw. How about this tweet: "In The Passion Of The Christ 2, Jesus gets raped by a pack of niggers. It's his own fault for dressing like a whore though." https://twitter.com/paxdickinson/statuses/18546571881

I am pretty sure this is a joke/troll. But there's no accounting for taste...

Re: Business Insider CTO Forced to Resign Following Twitter Firestorm

#92

Post by hosay123 »

untog wrote: post #51
hosay123 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This generalizes further than just antifeminism. Christians and atheists are usually in positions to hire people. I guess we should just fire everybody who ever believed in anything, and then we'd have a perfect world, right?

Where did you get the idea that "believing in anything" is the reason he got fired? It's quite simple (and already explained by rit). He posted numerous messages disparaging various groups - blacks, women, gays. He is responsible for hiring within the company. This places Business Insider in an utterly compromised position and in danger of lawsuits.

Been chewing on this since you made the comment, and I don't think I buy it. The "legal issues" angle is a dirty cop-out, and it ignores the issue at hand: he's being suppressed for holding an opinion.

Right now I'm looking at the Twitter search results and being reminded why I hate people in general. Should expressing this opinion get me fired? Should I be prohibited from occupying a position of hiring people because I am prejudiced to assume they are capable of what I'm seeing in those search results?

Somehow it's not fair. A Christian or Atheist or (pre-1960s) homosexual sympathizer would present the same risks to a business as Dickinson did here. His views aren't considered progressive by any means, but 50 or 100 years ago neither would the views of an Atheist or a homosexual. I'm trying to find the difference here between firing Dickinson and, say 60 years ago, firing a homosexual sympathizer.

And I can't find that line. I can't say, without making an absolute judgement using a perfect computer and a perfect observation of the global state of the universe, whether the sympathizer was correct at the time, or whether Dickinson is somehow wrong now. All I know is that nobody appears to have been harmed except Dickinson, and I won't be hearing his opinions any time soon, and that's a crying shame.

Re: Business Insider CTO Forced to Resign Following Twitter Firestorm

#93

Post by untog »

hosay123 wrote: post #92
untog wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did you get the idea that "believing in anything" is the reason he got fired? It's quite simple (and already explained by rit). He posted numerous messages disparaging various groups - blacks, women, gays. He is responsible for hiring within the company. This places Business Insider in an utterly compromised position and in danger of lawsuits.

Been chewing on this since you made the comment, and I don't think I buy it. The "legal issues" angle is a dirty cop-out, and it ignores the issue at hand: he's being suppressed for holding an opinion. Right now I'm looking at the Twitter search results and being reminded why I hate people in general. Should expressing this opinion get me fired? Should I be prohibited from occupying a position of hiring people becaus…

I'm trying to find the difference here between firing Dickinson and, say 60 years ago, firing a homosexual sympathizer.

Well, a homosexual sympathizer in a hiring position 60 years ago would have been more inclusive in their choices for candidate. A bigot in the 21st Century would be be more exclusive.

He is not being suppressed for holding an opinion. He is perfectly entitled to hold that opinion. And Business Insider is perfectly entitled to fire him to avoid being associated with an opinion that does not match their company values.

Re: Business Insider CTO Forced to Resign Following Twitter Firestorm

#94

Post by jcromartie »

untog wrote: post #30
fedvasu wrote: post #19

It is height of hypocrysy! That dude is not entitled to his opinion. :facepalm: I hate this entire feminism in tech agenda. Yeah, He is a douche, so what? Everyone is a little bit on varying topics.Because of things like that our industry is stranded in politics. Pax: Salute! business insider: you are anti-democratic and pro-feminist douche bags. fuck feminist agenda.

I've already posted this once, but can you explain how this tweet is related to the 'feminist agenda': "In The Passion Of The Christ 2, Jesus gets raped by a pack of niggers. It's his own fault for dressing like a whore though." https://twitter.com/paxdickinson/statuses/18546571881

It's about Mel Gibson's horrible phone call...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dm3YrTk7qTY

Re: Business Insider CTO Forced to Resign Following Twitter Firestorm

#95

Post by Nate75Sanders »

rjknight wrote: post #41
Nate75Sanders wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most devs I've met will just endlessly put up with this shit. They'll also put up with: - long hours - far less than optimal physical workspaces - being left in the dark about what's going on in the company from a business perspective - all kinds of other crap We need more devs who will speak up or at least who will support the ones who do speak up. In far too many workplaces, it's still high school. Management is so…

Most people will leave rather than 'pick a fight' over something, taking the 'exit' rather than exercising 'voice'[1]. Looked at a certain way, this is one of the good things about the good economy for tech workers, in that we can at least leave bad situations, but it's probably not so good for those who can't. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exit,_Voice,_and_Loyalty

Lots of them seriously won't leave, though.

The tech market is incredible in Seattle (where I live) right now and I know plenty of smart devs who put up with bullshit all the time.

Re: Business Insider CTO Forced to Resign Following Twitter Firestorm

#96

Post by hosay123 »

untog wrote: post #93
hosay123 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Been chewing on this since you made the comment, and I don't think I buy it. The "legal issues" angle is a dirty cop-out, and it ignores the issue at hand: he's being suppressed for holding an opinion. Right now I'm looking at the Twitter search results and being reminded why I hate people in general. Should expressing this opinion get me fired? Should I be prohibited from occupying a position of hiring people becaus…

I'm trying to find the difference here between firing Dickinson and, say 60 years ago, firing a homosexual sympathizer. Well, a homosexual sympathizer in a hiring position 60 years ago would have been more inclusive in their choices for candidate. A bigot in the 21st Century would be be more exclusive . He is not being suppressed for holding an opinion. He is perfectly entitled to hold that opinion. And Business Insi…

That's only true if the sympathizer never heard a candidate say "I fucking hate gays". I'm not sure how I feel about your last paragraph yet.

Re: Business Insider CTO Forced to Resign Following Twitter Firestorm

#97

Post by jackowayed »

newnewnew wrote: post #31

Poor guy. For what it's worth I agree with the tweets that got him fired, including this one[1] and the ones immediately around it. The "controversial" apps from the techcrunch disrupt hackathon weren't really "misogynist", so much as in bad taste. And I'm tired of seeing accusations of "hate" used to shut down discussion. But it seems that tweeting that kicked off a PC feminist lynch mob that went back through his t…

I would call supporting the objectification of women misogyny. Sure, it's not traditional "hatred" (But really, how many people hate all women in the traditional sense? Is that all people think misogyny means?), but it's a failure to value women as people.

Regardless, it's more than just bad taste. At a professional event for a group that has terrible gender balance, glorifying the objectification onstage only further creates a culture where it is hard for women to feel welcome. It's bad taste that is Part of the Problem. And even a sexualized environment (eg. the stupid CircleShake presentation) can make a lot of people feel uncomfortable, especially women since society views male and female sexuality very differently. Plus women are overwhelmingly the ones who have had very bad experiences with sex (sexual assault, etc), or have worried about it even if it hasn't happened.

So both presentations contributed to the status quo that makes tech/startups feel like a boys club, making it harder for women to feel comfortable joining the communities. I think that supporting these unjust, sexist status quos is misogyny, so both presentations were--in effect, if not in intention--misogynistic.

But it also doesn't matter. He's the CTO. If he were a random dev, firing him would probably be extreme. Talk to him, ask him to avoid touching controversial subjects online for awhile and be more careful and considerate. But this is the guy who leads the technical team. He has a lot of impact on the culture. If he thinks the right response to stupid guys who support the objectification of women onstage at a large, publicly-broadcast professional event is to defend them as "not misogynists," then I don't trust him to be very sensitive to how his work environment may need improvement to make women feel more comfortable. And I doubt many prospective female engineers would either.

Re: Business Insider CTO Forced to Resign Following Twitter Firestorm

#98

Post by darkarmani »

defen wrote: post #75
darkarmani wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are we suppressing his differences of opinion? Are you suggesting the BI isn't allowed to hire or fire whoever they want? >> In The Passion Of The Christ 2, Jesus gets raped by a pack of niggers. It's his own fault for dressing like a whore though. You'd put this guy in charge of your business?

Some of his other tweets are really bad, but I think this one is a legitimately funny satire of Mel Gibson. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/01/mel-gibsons-new-rac... . If The Onion had written it everyone would have had a good laugh and moved on.

> If The Onion had written it everyone would have had a good laugh and moved on.

That's a very good point: context matters. Being a C-level employee is very different than being a comedian (or telling jokes like that in sunday school).

Re: Business Insider CTO Forced to Resign Following Twitter Firestorm

#99

Post by Nate75Sanders »

babs474 wrote: post #89
Nate75Sanders wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most devs I've met will just endlessly put up with this shit. They'll also put up with: - long hours - far less than optimal physical workspaces - being left in the dark about what's going on in the company from a business perspective - all kinds of other crap We need more devs who will speak up or at least who will support the ones who do speak up. In far too many workplaces, it's still high school. Management is so…

We need devs who will not only speak up but who can communicate I spent a few years dealing with the asshole charlatan CTO, who I shit you not, was "discovered" while working at computer renaissance. The major differentiator between him and the lead dev who never got his way, was that the CTO could calmly and credibly state his case. Even if that case was as ridiculous as "we need to rewrite all our systems to use UD…

For sure. I've worked with plenty of developers who sound like 5-year-olds when they don't get their way. They can't control their speech, facial expressions, anger, etc.

Pretty important stuff: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_intelligence

Re: Business Insider CTO Forced to Resign Following Twitter Firestorm

#100

Post by newnewnew »

jackowayed wrote: post #97
newnewnew wrote: post #31

Poor guy. For what it's worth I agree with the tweets that got him fired, including this one[1] and the ones immediately around it. The "controversial" apps from the techcrunch disrupt hackathon weren't really "misogynist", so much as in bad taste. And I'm tired of seeing accusations of "hate" used to shut down discussion. But it seems that tweeting that kicked off a PC feminist lynch mob that went back through his t…

I would call supporting the objectification of women misogyny. Sure, it's not traditional "hatred" (But really, how many people hate all women in the traditional sense? Is that all people think misogyny means?), but it's a failure to value women as people. Regardless, it's more than just bad taste. At a professional event for a group that has terrible gender balance, glorifying the objectification onstage only furthe…

Let's be honest, the decision to fire Pax isn't about hiring female engineers so much as appeasing the lynch mob.

I disagree with your definitions of misogyny, objectification, and all that. But you seem like a reasonable person and I'm sure we could have a good discussion over it. However, if at the end of the discussion I get fired for holding my side of the conversation, count me out.

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