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Did The TSA and JetBlue Deny Travel For Looking Muslim During Ramadan? No

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Re: Did The TSA and JetBlue Deny Travel For Looking Muslim During Ramadan? No

#91

Post by chourobin »

rjvir wrote: post #74

As someone who has spent the Summer living on the same floor as Mr. Mukerjee and interacting with him often, I find it very hard to believe that he was overly aggressive at the security gate. This account seems wildly exaggerated.

I don't know Mr. Mukerjee personally but I've attended a few meetups where he gave a technical talk and he's always been very mild mannered and approachable. I just can't take this article seriously.

Sounds like the TSA/DHS is just trying to cover their asses. Shameful, no apology, no accountability.

Re: Did The TSA and JetBlue Deny Travel For Looking Muslim During Ramadan? No

#92

Post by Svip »

beloch wrote: post #76

"Mr. Mukerjee contends he asked to leave the screening area and return to the pre-security section of the terminal, with the intention of simply stepping back in line and going through screening again, but was not allowed. This is absolutely correct, at this time he was in limbo, he was not being detained, but he could not leave. A person cannot simply leave the security area of any airport once they are on the airsi…

But that's like saying, every time you are going through security in any airport, you are detained, because - you could not - if you so wanted, simply go back through security again. But you sort of opt-in for this when you fly; you know you are going to go through security and they won't let you leave unless you are cleared.

Edit: etchalon said it better.

Re: Did The TSA and JetBlue Deny Travel For Looking Muslim During Ramadan? No

#93

Post by etchalon »

nikcub wrote: post #51

This story is told from a perspective that rather than being a right, flying and travel is a privilege awarded to those who satisfy the TSA Who cares what the Behavior Detection Officer thought, he was wrong Who cares what the screening machine thought he was carrying, it was wrong Who cares what behavior the TSA officers and supervisors 'noted', they were also wrong If a person cannot simply get up and leave the TSA…

Flying is not even remotely a right.

Any airline, any airpot, any business period can refuse to provide you service for any non-protected reason (race, gender, etc.).

Re: Did The TSA and JetBlue Deny Travel For Looking Muslim During Ramadan? No

#94

Post by slg »

beloch wrote: post #76

"Mr. Mukerjee contends he asked to leave the screening area and return to the pre-security section of the terminal, with the intention of simply stepping back in line and going through screening again, but was not allowed. This is absolutely correct, at this time he was in limbo, he was not being detained, but he could not leave. A person cannot simply leave the security area of any airport once they are on the airsi…

Right at the end of the section you quoted states he would have been able to leave in such a case. He would have been allowed to leave the airport if he was willing to "be escorted out of the secure area (and usually the terminal)." The problem is that Mukerjee wanted to leave the interrogation area and immediately reenter the security line. Don't you think it would have been a little pointless for the TSA (ok, more pointless than the TSA usually is) to allow people who were stopped in security to simply restart the process again in hopes they wouldn't be stopped a second time?

Re: Did The TSA and JetBlue Deny Travel For Looking Muslim During Ramadan? No

#95

Post by etchalon »

rdtsc wrote: post #71
wpietri wrote: post #14

How I hate these stenographer-to-the-powerful articles. The guy makes his money as a consultant to airlines; he here gives the official side of things under cover of perfect anonymity and official deniability. He does it while pretending to be a neutral arbiter of fact, showing no skepticism at all about official claims. And, naturally, he doesn't bother to follow up with the author of the blog post he responded to.…

I suspect they just sent him the article prepared by DHS PR department interns along with a check.

Yes, clearly it's impossible for the actual event to have transpired differently than what the person said. No one ever exaggerates things or misrepresents them on the internet.

Re: Did The TSA and JetBlue Deny Travel For Looking Muslim During Ramadan? No

#96

Post by justin66 »

res0nat0r wrote: post #48
dthunt wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I call foul on behavioral detection. I sincerely doubt there's a way to differentiate between someone who is ill and someone who is pale and has the jitters because they're about to do something bad. I moreover call foul on the notion that there are enough of the latter set to build an effective training program to create effective BDOs. What's actually happening here is probably that BDOs are being used to justify r…

Israel has been doing behavior profiling beginning at the moment you get out of your car at the airport, and run one of the most secure airports in the world. Even though the word profiling has a bad connotation in the USA, it works. http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/20...

In their case, I would want to talk to some of the Arabs who deal with their security methods while traveling before declaring victory.

Re: Did The TSA and JetBlue Deny Travel For Looking Muslim During Ramadan? No

#97

Post by etchalon »

kyllo wrote: post #40
ISL wrote: post #33

If you cannot leave, are you not detained? "This is absolutely correct, at this time he was in limbo, he was not being detained, but he could not leave. A person cannot simply leave the security area of any airport once they are on the airside but have not satisfactorily completed screening. Once a person has passed through security, but is not cleared to fly and then chooses to leave, such as Mr. Mukerjee, s/he must…

This is complete bullshit. "Limbo" is not a thing. Either you are being detained, or you are free to leave.

"Free to leave" and "free to roam about the airport" are two vastly different things.

He was free to leave the airport, if escorted, as the article states quite clearly.

Re: Did The TSA and JetBlue Deny Travel For Looking Muslim During Ramadan? No

#98

Post by pseudonym »

Svip wrote: post #92
beloch wrote: post #76

"Mr. Mukerjee contends he asked to leave the screening area and return to the pre-security section of the terminal, with the intention of simply stepping back in line and going through screening again, but was not allowed. This is absolutely correct, at this time he was in limbo, he was not being detained, but he could not leave. A person cannot simply leave the security area of any airport once they are on the airsi…

But that's like saying, every time you are going through security in any airport, you are detained, because - you could not - if you so wanted, simply go back through security again. But you sort of opt-in for this when you fly; you know you are going to go through security and they won't let you leave unless you are cleared. Edit: etchalon said it better.

It's not a question of "going back through security", re-entrance has nothing to do with it. Going to a concert where they don't stamp your hand when you go through the door doesn't make you "detained".

Re: Did The TSA and JetBlue Deny Travel For Looking Muslim During Ramadan? No

#99

Post by lambda »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #84
jlgaddis wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does not seem unreasonable to me to believe that someone (other than law enforcement) broke into his apartment and, finding it nearly empty, rifled through his suitcase, and took the picture simply out of anger. None of us on here know exactly what happened but the above seems (to me) just as likely as law enforcement breaking into his apartment. I would think they would also visit the apartment/residence he was v…

It's certainly far from proof, but it is very disconcerting. Let's go through the lines of evidence here. First off, there were apparently no visible signs that anyone had broken into his apartment. If the FBI or the police had picked the lock or if they had gotten the super to let them in and told him or her to remain silent about it then that would explain such an absence. A thief could also pick the lock but why w…

> The most logical conclusion that I can come to is that a law enforcement agent searched Mukerjee's apartment and probably took the photo so that it could be scanned or for some other reason but accidentally forgot to put it back.

Have you ever considered that his landlord could have come into the apartment to make sure it had been cleaned up properly by the outgoing tenants (remember, he had moved in the night before his trip). If the landlord had found a poster that had fallen off the wall, he may have thought it was trash left by the other tenants and thrown it away. His landlord would not have had to break in.

I don't think it's impossible that law enforcement searched his apartment; but if they had, wouldn't his bags have been unpacked, rather than just one of them a little out of place?

But really, why doesn't he just ask his landlord or super? If the police came, they probably would have asked the landlord to let them in. I mentioned the landlord idea on the previous thread, but he never responded.

Re: Did The TSA and JetBlue Deny Travel For Looking Muslim During Ramadan? No

#100

Post by sseveran »

cpayne wrote: post #27
ck2 wrote: post #4

Sorry I am still taking his side. This writeup is not only just nit-picking his story - it's using the TSA as witness against itself. I am most certainly not going to the take TSA's word for what happened. That would be like taking the NSA's word to congress for example. What do you think happens by lesser agencies on non-sworn testimony when they see what their big-brother can get away with? And the "behavior detect…

> Prove to me they didn't search his home without serving him a warrant and then we'll talk about the accuracy of this story. How do you prove a negative. The key for me is that he got the NYPD & Port Authority mixed up. Innocent on its own, except the bit where the Port Authority has no jurisdiction outside airports.

And all the other places they have jurisdiction over...It turns out there are more "ports" than just airports.
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