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Wozniak Says `Lot of Things Wrong’ With Jobs Movie [video]

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Re: Wozniak Says `Lot of Things Wrong’ With Jobs Movie [video]

#91

Post by phreakingout »

fudged71 wrote: post #87
VonGuard wrote: post #76

In the heady days of my youth in the early 90's I was foolishly of the opinion that Apple would one day rule the world, and that Steve Jobs would be seen as some sort of Christ figure. I kinda looked up to him in that fashion, at the time, even before he'd come back to Apple after Next. Of course, when I actually became an adult, I realized the error of my ways, switched to Linux,and over time my admiration only grew…

Is "10%" a typo? :)

10% is a lot of hacker ethos. Few take shits on toilets they made themselves all the time. Few make their own mattress or intentionally hack their brainwaves with external and/or internal devices when they sleep. And very few are consuming soylent regularly. You could have written your own email client, browser, and you could be writing code on a CPU you designed yourself, just to avoid the day-to-day grunge of unhackerness. I could have spent the time that I wrote this to instead take apart an old cordless phone to make it a garage door opener, just to have a spare. The car I drive could be one of a kind. It shouldn't even be called "car", because it would be different and better suited for the task of getting me from point A to B, freeing my hands to hack something together while I'm traveling.

Yes, 10% is what was meant, even if it was unintentional.

Re: Wozniak Says `Lot of Things Wrong’ With Jobs Movie [video]

#92

Post by bsdetector »

VonGuard wrote: post #76

In the heady days of my youth in the early 90's I was foolishly of the opinion that Apple would one day rule the world, and that Steve Jobs would be seen as some sort of Christ figure. I kinda looked up to him in that fashion, at the time, even before he'd come back to Apple after Next. Of course, when I actually became an adult, I realized the error of my ways, switched to Linux,and over time my admiration only grew…

Please. Woz's answer to the top thing wrong with the movie was that it overglorified Jobs as too much of a personality. But later he says Jobs was the best technology leader of our time.

This may not be a good movie and I believe that Woz believes what he says, but like any eyewitness I also believe his memory is colored heavily by his own POV.

Keep your mind clear and don't worship Jobs or Woz.

Re: Wozniak Says `Lot of Things Wrong’ With Jobs Movie [video]

#93

Post by julespitt »

esusatyo wrote: post #86

What is wrong with the interviewer? Towards the end she kept pushing Woz to say that Apple is in decline. Even after Woz repeatedly said that he didn't believe so. Is this the view of the general public? That Apple is doomed if they don't release iWatch or whatever that's bigger than the iPhone/iPad?

Not the general public, but I listen to Bloomberg financial radio a lot, and know-nothing finance types definitely believe that Apple needs another product - any product - immediately.

On the other side, different analysts say both the watch market and the TV market are too small to matter, so Apple is also doomed if they do. That the MP3 player, smartphone and tablet markets were also "too small" before Apple released their products hasn't entered their mind.

Re: Wozniak Says `Lot of Things Wrong’ With Jobs Movie [video]

#94

Post by purephase »

Anyone else think that all this negative press is on purpose? I mean, really. They've taken one of the most iconic men of this nascent century and apparently slapped together a movie about him.

It's not like there is not considerable source material to work with (even without Isaacson's book if you're concerned about the "other" movie).

It just feels like someone has asked the press to deliberately drum up negative opinions specifically in regards to the true validity of the movie (not, you know, overall quality) and it will likely drive people out in droves.

Re: Wozniak Says `Lot of Things Wrong’ With Jobs Movie [video]

#95

Post by enraged_camel »

derefr wrote: post #79
VonGuard wrote: post #76

In the heady days of my youth in the early 90's I was foolishly of the opinion that Apple would one day rule the world, and that Steve Jobs would be seen as some sort of Christ figure. I kinda looked up to him in that fashion, at the time, even before he'd come back to Apple after Next. Of course, when I actually became an adult, I realized the error of my ways, switched to Linux,and over time my admiration only grew…

Rather than picking one over the other, I would say that it would have been best if Jobs had had a little more Woz in him (to appreciate the tech more), Woz had had a little more Jobs (to sell himself more), and they had continued to work together. Apple would be an even bigger player than it is today, I think.

I disagree. What made them an amazing pair is that they complimented each other perfectly. Character and skill are zero-sum: if Jobs had a little more Woz in him, he would have to be a little less Jobs. And vice versa. The result would be a more inferior Apple.

It's better to have one person who is Level 100 at skill A and another who is Level 100 at skill B, than 75/25 and 25/75.

"Well-rounded" is another term for "mediocre."

Re: Wozniak Says `Lot of Things Wrong’ With Jobs Movie [video]

#96

Post by oblique63 »

enraged_camel wrote: post #95
derefr wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rather than picking one over the other, I would say that it would have been best if Jobs had had a little more Woz in him (to appreciate the tech more), Woz had had a little more Jobs (to sell himself more), and they had continued to work together. Apple would be an even bigger player than it is today, I think.

I disagree. What made them an amazing pair is that they complimented each other perfectly. Character and skill are zero-sum: if Jobs had a little more Woz in him, he would have to be a little less Jobs. And vice versa. The result would be a more inferior Apple. It's better to have one person who is Level 100 at skill A and another who is Level 100 at skill B, than 75/25 and 25/75. "Well-rounded" is another term for "…

While this stance sounds nice, it doesn't actually make much sense in reality. It appeals to our cultural want for 'justice'/'fairness'/'equality', but it doesn't quite pan out once you look at the general picture of skill acquisition.

If a person learned to become exceptionally 'talented' in one area, then he/she's more likely to replicate that same level success in a completely new area, than someone who hasn't gained that level of skill anywhere. This is because skill acquisition itself is a skill. So once you've learned what it takes to master a certain skill (i.e. you learned how to learn effectively), you can then apply it with much more ease than someone who hasn't really learned how to learn as much. This causes a sort of 'snowball-effect' outcome, where ease of skill acquisition follows a logarithmic curve of sorts rather than a linear/exponential one like most people seem to view it.

The only limiting factor on skill acquisition is choice/taste. If a particular area doesn't interest you, then why bother expending energy learning to master it, right? Doesn't mean you're not capable of it, all it means is that you didn't have to strive for greatness in that area to make it work for you. And since Jobs met Woz pretty early on, there was really no reason for him to become a master engineer thereafter. Meanwhile, Woz probably just didn't care about business/marketing, so he chose to not master it.

There are other factors that influence skill acquisition (e.g. IQ), but they don't necessarily limit it. And in order for the 'fair' view of skill acquisition to hold, there would need to be some sort of non-trainable limiting mechanism for building skills. But as of now, I'm not familiar of anything that would cause that.

The only way the "Jack of all trades; master of none" mantra holds, is if the 'Jack' never deeply learnt/'mastered' any of the subjects he's familiar with. But of course, the label "Jack of all trades" doesn't actually specify whether-or-not that's actually the case. Same for "well-rounded"; implying it indicates anything other than breadth of knowledge is inaccurate.

Re: Wozniak Says `Lot of Things Wrong’ With Jobs Movie [video]

#97

Post by snowwrestler »

phaus wrote: post #46
MBCook wrote: post #12

The woman doing the interview really seems to do a poor job. She seems to let Wozniak get about 80-90% into statements and then speedily talk over him to move onto the next point. It doesn't sound like she's actually listening to his answers, just going down her checklist. At one point he explains why he liked Sorkin's approach better than Kutcher's, then she asked a later question as if he had never said that. It's…

I haven't seen the movie, but wasn't Jobs' personality pretty much the same throughout his life? I've read a few different articles where they claimed that when he worked at Atari, they created a shift just for him because no one could stand to work around him. Supposedly it was because he was an unwashed hippie, but I'm inclined to think that Atari's entire staff was made up of unwashed hippies during this time peri…

No one's personality is the same throughout their life. As we each experience new things, we change to take them into account.

In this case, Woz is saying that the movie portrays Jobs as being a lot more focused, capable, and charismatic than he actually was as a young man. Letting the present color our view of the past is an easy story-telling trap to fall into.

Re: Wozniak Says `Lot of Things Wrong’ With Jobs Movie [video]

#98

Post by nashequilibrium »

bredren wrote: post #82
MBCook wrote: post #12

The woman doing the interview really seems to do a poor job. She seems to let Wozniak get about 80-90% into statements and then speedily talk over him to move onto the next point. It doesn't sound like she's actually listening to his answers, just going down her checklist. At one point he explains why he liked Sorkin's approach better than Kutcher's, then she asked a later question as if he had never said that. It's…

If you think this was rough, watch her attempt to interview PG: http://www.bloomberg.com/video/71010068-y-combinator-founder...

Thanks, i have never seen this interview and i watch bwest clips often.

Re: Wozniak Says `Lot of Things Wrong’ With Jobs Movie [video]

#99

Post by ateev »

VonGuard wrote: post #76

In the heady days of my youth in the early 90's I was foolishly of the opinion that Apple would one day rule the world, and that Steve Jobs would be seen as some sort of Christ figure. I kinda looked up to him in that fashion, at the time, even before he'd come back to Apple after Next. Of course, when I actually became an adult, I realized the error of my ways, switched to Linux,and over time my admiration only grew…

I have read a lot about who's better. Jobs or Woz. Who's right ?. Well according to me both are equally important. They are like inseparable. No one would have succeeded without the other. We need both, awesome passionate technology-focused engineers and user-experienced-focused people in our team. As tom pretson said in one of his talks, open source lacks designers. There are so many great engineers in the open source communities but not enough designers. This has to change. And this combination only can guarantee a success for startups.

Re: Wozniak Says `Lot of Things Wrong’ With Jobs Movie [video]

#100

Post by stiff »

oblique63 wrote: post #96
enraged_camel wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. What made them an amazing pair is that they complimented each other perfectly. Character and skill are zero-sum: if Jobs had a little more Woz in him, he would have to be a little less Jobs. And vice versa. The result would be a more inferior Apple. It's better to have one person who is Level 100 at skill A and another who is Level 100 at skill B, than 75/25 and 25/75. "Well-rounded" is another term for "…

While this stance sounds nice, it doesn't actually make much sense in reality. It appeals to our cultural want for 'justice'/'fairness'/'equality', but it doesn't quite pan out once you look at the general picture of skill acquisition. If a person learned to become exceptionally 'talented' in one area, then he/she's more likely to replicate that same level success in a completely new area, than someone who hasn't gai…

Without references your comment is worthless.
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