Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why YouTube buffers: The secret deals that make and break online video

arstechnica.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 112 posts

Re: Why YouTube buffers: The secret deals that make and break online video

#91

Post by johnward »

revelation wrote: post #12

This is just one of the many fights surrounding net neutrality. We desperately need to break up ISP monopolies and enact strict net neutrality regulation and bandwidth (even latency/routing) guarantees. The idea that a single ISP is in a position to charge both YouTube and its customers is bizarre. By any basic reasoning, an ISP that doesn't enable access to YouTube should be out of customers within a few months. Tha…

There are plenty of places (especially in the US) that you don't have a choice of ISP. Unless you count dialup as the alternative.

Re: Why YouTube buffers: The secret deals that make and break online video

#92

Post by osth »

Sounds like mirroring and ftp servers (or even bittorrent) would work just fine for distributing copyright-cleared video. Indeed that's how I remember it being done before YouTube and Netflix existed.

Today, with the explosion of online video, the copyright-clearance step could be administered by companies (as it already is, e.g., YouTube), but the servers providing distribution to the users at the network edge do not have to be run by companies.

1. Recall that storage is quite inexpensive and users are today quite capable of providing their own at home or on-the-go storage for terabytes or gigabytes of video.

2. Recall the "content-centric" networking idea Van Jacobsen has presented to Googlers. Does it really matter where the user gets the content? No. What is important is that it is authentic (and copyright-cleared).

Re: Why YouTube buffers: The secret deals that make and break online video

#93

Post by Finster »

ramblerman wrote: post #39
beachstartup wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The idea that a single ISP is in a position to charge both YouTube and its customers is bizarre. why is this bizarre?

Because given that practice continues, and is accepted, we could find ourselves in a position where making a website now requires a regional fee to the ISP guild.

Wat. It already happens. I don't get free hosting for my sites.

Re: Why YouTube buffers: The secret deals that make and break online video

#94

Post by Finster »

revelation wrote: post #12

This is just one of the many fights surrounding net neutrality. We desperately need to break up ISP monopolies and enact strict net neutrality regulation and bandwidth (even latency/routing) guarantees. The idea that a single ISP is in a position to charge both YouTube and its customers is bizarre. By any basic reasoning, an ISP that doesn't enable access to YouTube should be out of customers within a few months. Tha…

So, the problem is that bandwidth is limited. There isn't infinite bandwidth available. You're dissatisfied with the way a monopolizing ISP is choosing to ration bandwidth.

Your solution is to have the government, through legislation, control how bandwidth is rationed? Yes, by all means, instead of degraded YouTube performance, let's just cut everyone's bandwidth across the board to some idiotic bandwidth guarantee. As if the government would somehow magically be able to better ration bandwidth than the companies that, you know, actually provide it.

A better solution might be to get rid of regulations and try to lower the barriers to entry, so that it's easier for smaller startups to get into the same space as the ISP's. "But limited infrastructure, blah blah, whaa whaa." Shut it.

Google shouldn't be the only company with the ability to create new infrastructure (like inflatables). But since regulation around internet infrastructure has to be micro-managed by so many levels of government, it only makes things harder for the non-Googles.

Re: Why YouTube buffers: The secret deals that make and break online video

#95

Post by wmf »

Qantourisc wrote: post #45

The internet used to be ran by engineers. Now it's ran by suits ... The former does what needs to be done, and all pitch in to move traffic. Suits on the other hand only see $$$. As for the suits: either your are overselling your bandwidth and you don't have enough money to make the necessary changes REGARDLESS of where the traffic is going/coming from. Or your just being greedy ! To fight this, I think it's best to…

Here's the latest FCC report on broadband ISP speeds: http://www.fcc.gov/measuring-broadband-america/2013/February

Unfortunately it doesn't measure real content providers so it may not detect peering problems.

Re: Why YouTube buffers: The secret deals that make and break online video

#96

Post by ramblerman »

Finster wrote: post #93
ramblerman wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because given that practice continues, and is accepted, we could find ourselves in a position where making a website now requires a regional fee to the ISP guild.

Wat. It already happens. I don't get free hosting for my sites.

I think you're confused about the issue.

you pay for hosting, yes, of course. You don't additionally pay individual ISPs to guarantee it's users access to your sites.

Re: Why YouTube buffers: The secret deals that make and break online video

#97

Post by recursive »

300bps wrote: post #85

The reality is that major ISPs like Verizon and Comcast want Netflix to DIE because it is a major competitor of theirs. How many people have cut their cable TV service because Netflix is "good enough?" So Verizon and Comcast can compete with Netflix, or they can attempt to cut off their knees. "Nice streaming service you got there. Be a shame if it was so slow your users got frustrated and cancelled their service." T…

Good enough? It's better. There are no ads.

Re: Why YouTube buffers: The secret deals that make and break online video

#98

Post by brownbat »

revelation wrote: post #12

This is just one of the many fights surrounding net neutrality. We desperately need to break up ISP monopolies and enact strict net neutrality regulation and bandwidth (even latency/routing) guarantees. The idea that a single ISP is in a position to charge both YouTube and its customers is bizarre. By any basic reasoning, an ISP that doesn't enable access to YouTube should be out of customers within a few months. Tha…

> We desperately need to break up ISP monopolies and enact strict net neutrality regulation

I walked away from the article much more skeptical of the value of net neutrality rules.

Are you going to have a law that requires someone maintain all their equipment? How will you know what's "maintained enough?" What about the companies that didn't deploy as much capacity as service providers wanted? How will you eliminate the appearance of favoritism in regulators enforcing something so vague?

That said, I'm all for breaking up monopolies and punishing collusion though, that seems like an easier fix, something we have more experience enforcing.

Re: Why YouTube buffers: The secret deals that make and break online video

#99

Post by 300bps »

recursive wrote: post #97
300bps wrote: post #85

The reality is that major ISPs like Verizon and Comcast want Netflix to DIE because it is a major competitor of theirs. How many people have cut their cable TV service because Netflix is "good enough?" So Verizon and Comcast can compete with Netflix, or they can attempt to cut off their knees. "Nice streaming service you got there. Be a shame if it was so slow your users got frustrated and cancelled their service." T…

Good enough? It's better. There are no ads.

...yet

Re: Why YouTube buffers: The secret deals that make and break online video

#100

Post by cpncrunch »

shoxty wrote: post #89

This peering issue has affected me a lot. I watch a lot of gaming streams online and during peek hours Twitch.tv has becomes unusable. During a major tournament this is very unfortunate. Another example of this peering dispute affecting me is with the game League of Legends. Almost everyone who is on Comcast (myself included) during peek times experiences lag that makes the game unplayable. Your character "skates" al…

Can you not change to a better ISP? It's ridiculous to be paying good money for high speed internet if your ISP can't handle the load. I've been using shaw.ca for years with zero problems since they upgraded their network to fibre, and we have two other pretty decent providers to choose from as well.

I'm sure you must have a decent ISP somewhere down in the states. If not, perhaps you just need to wait for google to do it.

Post reply on HN