Verbal abuse on LKML • Hacker News Board

Re: Verbal abuse on LKML

#91

Post by aclevernickname » Tue, Jul 16, 2013, 8:55 PM UTC

PavlovsCat wrote: post #36

aclevernickname wrote: post #5

So, can anyone tell me what Sarah Sharp has contributed to the kernel?

She doesn't raise her very valid points about code, but about this other thing, people, or to be more precise about being a callous dick. (My words, not hers, which are way more polite and constructive.) Linus: Yes. And I do it partly (mostly) because it's who I am, and partly because I honestly despise being subtle or "nice". [much later] The thing is, the "victim card" is exactly about trying to enforce your partic…

You should probably show your contributions to LKML or the commits you've made to the kernel source at this point. Or, you know, something that shows you have an investment/reason to be speaking up in this fight. otherwise, you're one of the "cowardly clowns just eating popcorn" that you're making a point to shame.

Re: Verbal abuse on LKML

#92

Post by aclevernickname » Tue, Jul 16, 2013, 9:01 PM UTC

PavlovsCat wrote: post #43

venomsnake wrote: post #28

We should be allowed to insult each other. In general. But here is the thing - if should be non discriminatory. The bullshit and idiocy should be called on spot without taking into consideration the race, gender,age, color and attitude towards my little pony of the offender. So as long as Linus treats everyone as a inferior retard until proven otherwise it is ok with me. I think racism and sexism (and lots of other i…

In the words of Linus, that's bullshit, and you're stupid for even suggesting it. If hating a subset of something is bad, then how is hating the whole better? Because it's more "fair"? It's also a lot more destructive, and misanthropy could be argued to include all -isms you could name, and then some. Here's a thought, misanthropy is always projected self-hate, delusions of grandeur are just inferiority complexes, an…

> But if you're for calling a spade a spade, let's call a spade a spade.

it's bad enough with the sexist comments in here, perhaps we could avoid the racist ones as well?

See what I did there? how is that different from what Sarah Sharp did?

Re: Verbal abuse on LKML

#93

Post by aclevernickname » Tue, Jul 16, 2013, 9:05 PM UTC

Ygg2 wrote: post #68

_sabe_ wrote: post #65

I would think Linus has some form of light asperger, and when he calls someone "dick head" thats not aggression against a physical person but in this case to the fact that someone pushed code that does not build. He's to rational to mix up personal feelings against somebody and the quality of the code. The only way to get offended when Linus goes of in a rant is to think that he does. Also maybe it's the fact that I'…

And maybe, all of his swearing is a form of Tourette's syndrome. Let's not rationalize it here, I doubt either one of us holds a PhD in psychology.

Those of us that actually have Tourette's syndrome really get pissed when people confuse it with Coprolalia [1]. Seeing as we're having a nice "lets-all-be-PC" hug-fest in this thread, perhaps we can stop being insensitive to people in this case as well?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coprolalia

Re: Verbal abuse on LKML

#94

Post by lawnchair_larry » Wed, Jul 17, 2013, 3:04 AM UTC

Ygg2 wrote: post #66

markdown wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People are pretending that his horrible behavior is acceptable just because they don't want to get on his bad side. Or maybe they're just willing to accept the occasional insult from a guy they respect, admire, and who has done so much good for them. Kinda like how people forgive Bill Clinton for lying to them about his private shenanigans because he was a damn good president overall.

Or maybe, just maybe you can be a smart, contributing person without being a raging douche bag.

Can you though? What makes you think that you can cherry pick the intricacies of one's character and leave what remains intact? The passion that you see is likely intertwined so deeply in what makes him tick that it's the reason we even have Linux in the first place.

People are flawed, you can't expect to have the good without the bad. That's not an excuse to be a jerk, but one needs to step back and be objective about the package that the recipient of their personality critique is offering society. He's rather forthcoming about his value proposition as a person, and it can't be argued that it isn't a good one.

It's extremely selfish to intentionally create controversy and put your own personal feelings ahead of what he and his team are doing. On top of that, trying to turn it into a women's rights issue and getting the Ada Initiative involved is just shameful.

Re: Verbal abuse on LKML

#95

Post by lawnchair_larry » Wed, Jul 17, 2013, 3:09 AM UTC

kingkilr wrote: post #17

davidw wrote: post #10

I like Rusty Russell's point of view: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/1525480 " You have to be harsh with code: People mistake politeness for uncertainty. Whenever I said 'I prefer if you XYZ' some proportion didn't realize I meant 'Don't argue unless you have new facts: do XYZ or go away.' This wastes my time, so I started being explicit. But be gentle with people. You've already called their baby ugly."

This is a false dichotomy. I do a lot of code review, both in my day job and for many open source projects. I've never had to verbally abuse someone to explain the changes I wanted to see in a patch. (OSS projects I've done code review on include: Django, PyPy, Topaz, CPython, Twisted, and OpenStack)

You also have never created linux or anything on par with it, for free.

Neither have I, that's why my opinion of him doesn't count for anything.

Re: Verbal abuse on LKML

#96

Post by lawnchair_larry » Wed, Jul 17, 2013, 3:18 AM UTC

icebraining wrote: post #15

beachstartup wrote: post #6

this issue comes up every couple of years - these guys write linux, you can't make them do anything. they are untouchable and will do/say whatever the hell they want. linus especially - is a grown ass man and does this in person too, as is his prerogative. anyone see his github speech? he stands up in front of 300 people and calls them all idiots.

Sarah Sharp is part of the people who "write linux" - she's the xHCI driver maintainer at Intel.

While this is a great contribution, and more than I have done for open source, this is a far cry from "writing linux". Also, it's her job at Intel.

Re: Verbal abuse on LKML

#97

Post by Ygg2 » Wed, Jul 17, 2013, 8:04 AM UTC

aclevernickname wrote: post #93

Ygg2 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And maybe, all of his swearing is a form of Tourette's syndrome. Let's not rationalize it here, I doubt either one of us holds a PhD in psychology.

Those of us that actually have Tourette's syndrome really get pissed when people confuse it with Coprolalia [1]. Seeing as we're having a nice "lets-all-be-PC" hug-fest in this thread, perhaps we can stop being insensitive to people in this case as well? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coprolalia

It was a joke. Tourette's/Coprolalia refers to having a tick like behavior that might cause swearing. It is laughable that his writing is caused by Tourette'ssyndrome /Coprolalia.