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Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

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Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#91

Post by julianpye »

PavlovsCat wrote: post #37
julianpye wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It simply shows that there had been ongoing planning activities by terrorist cells in Germany.

That comment simply shows that while the lights may be on, there is nobody home.

Why the downvote? The cell planned and coordinated with AQ while they were living in Germany and the BND did not detect their activities. Since then the US intensified their activities in Germany. I am not saying this is fair for Germany or not, but it's simply a logical conclusion from the US point of view in light of activities such as the patriot act and the creation of the DoHS.

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#92

Post by weinzierl »

Keyframe wrote: post #84
LinaLauneBaer wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I am misunderstanding you but I disagree that the US runs Germany. Or what do you mean by saying "the US runs the shop since the end of WW2"? Yes, the US has stationed troops and nuclear missels in Germany but this is far from "running the shop".

I seriously doubt that even today Germany has a final say without US weighing in first in anything related to their military, intelligence, foreign policies. France on the other hand plays hard ball, I'd like to see something like that escalate in France.

If you'd ask me a week ago who the U.S. is spying on the most in the EU, I'd told you without hesitation: France. One can only wonder...

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#93

Post by cabalamat »

susi22 wrote: post #2

Original (this is on the front page of Spiegel today): http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/netzpolitik/nsa-ueberwacht-50... This was also posted yesterday (was on yesterday's front page of Spiegel): http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/netzpolitik/nsa-hat-wanzen-in... Article says that the NSA used bugs to spy on EU offices. Both articles, the comments of SPON (SPiegel ONline): Germans are pissed (We take privacy serious [1]).…

> Germans are pissed (We take privacy serious [1]). They're expecting the EU and chancellor Merkel to do something or she's going to have a really tough time being re-elected in the fall.

How is this affecting the Pirates' poll ratings? If they hold the balance of power in the Bundestag, it's likely the next German government would have to do something.

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#94

Post by brortao »

muuh-gnu wrote: post #52
bayesianhorse wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Germany was more of a "target", and considering involvements of the German muslim minority in 9/11 this isn't very surprising either. Still I really don't like what the NSA is doing to us...

Considering the massive immigration of Muslims and their continuing radicalization instead of assimilation, the whole of western Europe including Germany is going to turn into an "enemy" 20-30 years down the road. Europe is an US ally today not because of the geography, but because of the Europeans. But the Europeans have mostly given up making babies and will in 1-2 generations be mostly replaced by more fertile Mus…

London attracts a lot of internationals because of opportunities for education & employment. That's why the ethnic English population is less than 50%. It's important to note that the >50% of internationals are not all muslim, at all.

When it comes to birth rates, they vary a lot depending on a family's country of origin. Take Pakistan: in general first generation Pakistani immigrants do have more children than Europeans - but after a generation or two, the demographic pattern is very similar to that of the host country.

There is a radicalisation issue, but it's dangerous to start implying that all or most muslims are "hostile to the US" or "Jihadi". It's a very small minority, and especially in England. Almost a quarter of the world's population is muslim, they're just regular people. It's xenophobic to assume that they all hate you.

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#95

Post by levosmetalo »

corin_ wrote: post #83
Schlaefer wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Spiegel homepage is hugely popular in Germany. Look at the table on the bottom [1]. Note that the data is a little bit older and Bild is yellow press and recently introduced a pay wall. If a topic is prominent on the Spiegel homepage mainstream Germany will talk about it. [1] http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=auto&tl=en&u=ht...

I get that it's popular, but still.. maybe it's just a cultural difference, I don't think in the UK we would specify website (e.g. "it's on the front page of The Guardian's website"), and even then I don't think we'd refer to the front page of a newspaper/magazine's website as a big deal, we'd maybe specifically highlight how prominent on the front page it is. I mean, on Spiegel.de right now, sure the NSA story is at…

Do you work for NSA? Is it really your interest to discuss technicallites instead of story itself? Do you also think the main story and focus should be on Snowden instead of espionage?

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#96

Post by NonEUCitizen »

mtgx wrote: post #57

This would be a good opportunity for Germany/EU to give Snowden asylum, if only to show US that they screwed up so much, it's EU itself, their ally, who will give him asylum.

During Kim Dotcom coverage, some news articles mentioned that Germany does not extradite German citizens. Any chance the Bundestag can grant Snowden German citizenship?

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#97

Post by Semaphor »

bayesianhorse wrote: post #76
JulienSchmidt wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would the FDP profit from this? AFAIK they never positioned themselves in favor of privacy. I think the green party (Bündnis 90 / Die Grüne) will profit considerably more from this. They are know promoters of privacy and personal rights. "Die Linke" could also profit from this.

The liberals are very vocal about privacy and interfering of the state in the people's affairs. They just don't do a very good job making people aware of these positions...

Or fighting for those positions.

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#98

Post by corin_ »

levosmetalo wrote: post #95
corin_ wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get that it's popular, but still.. maybe it's just a cultural difference, I don't think in the UK we would specify website (e.g. "it's on the front page of The Guardian's website"), and even then I don't think we'd refer to the front page of a newspaper/magazine's website as a big deal, we'd maybe specifically highlight how prominent on the front page it is. I mean, on Spiegel.de right now, sure the NSA story is at…

Do you work for NSA? Is it really your interest to discuss technicallites instead of story itself? Do you also think the main story and focus should be on Snowden instead of espionage?

Why does my curiosity about the wording of someone's comment imply that this is more important than the story itself? I presume you too will at some point today have a conversation with someone, whether online or offline, about something other than the NSA. That's the beauty of being a species capable of thinking about more than one thing at once.

I wasn't complaining about the original comment, I was literally curious to check whether I had misunderstood the publishing schedule of the magazine, or whether it was just worded in a way that didn't quite make sense to me.

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#99

Post by JulienSchmidt »

chj wrote: post #86
LinaLauneBaer wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I am misunderstanding you but I disagree that the US runs Germany. Or what do you mean by saying "the US runs the shop since the end of WW2"? Yes, the US has stationed troops and nuclear missels in Germany but this is far from "running the shop".

Interesting. Is the US army inside Germany a left over from cold war? Do they have the capability to own the country if necessary?

At least not by law http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&ie=UTF-8&u...

And yes, the US army bases in Germany are left overs from the allied occupation after WW II

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#100

Post by PavlovsCat »

julianpye wrote: post #91
PavlovsCat wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That comment simply shows that while the lights may be on, there is nobody home.

Why the downvote? The cell planned and coordinated with AQ while they were living in Germany and the BND did not detect their activities. Since then the US intensified their activities in Germany. I am not saying this is fair for Germany or not, but it's simply a logical conclusion from the US point of view in light of activities such as the patriot act and the creation of the DoHS.

I did not downvote you, only verbally if you will. But I will elaborate, to me it sounded as if you were saying that the NSA is only ever going after terrorists [whatever that even means, considering activists also seem to fall under that umbrella], so no matter what they do, it must be required to fight terrorism. By definition. [that's a great way to create fiscal black holes, but rather shoddy reasoning]

So why was COINTELPRO not required to keep the US from being destroyed by, uhh, black supremacists? The CIA did it, it's concerned with "criminals", that's in the name -- good enough, no?

The cell planned and coordinated with AQ while they were living in Germany and the BND did not detect their activities.

Yes, and as I said elsewhere, I can totally see why they wouldn't leave anything serious that could possibly be a threat to the US to German intelligence. But I still don't see how 500 million messages per month could figure into this, unless they are spying on everyone who knows someone who knows someone who knows someone who knows someone who visited a jihadist website...?

If guessing how much it costs to wash all windows in Seattle is a normal job interview question for some, maybe they can help? I wouldn't even know where to begin, myself. But 500 million seems like a lot no matter how I look at it.

Since then the US intensified their activities in Germany.

Oh, so they "intensified it", and that explains everything? 500 million messages, or 500 billion, who cares?

To me that sounds like chocolate rations are up 5%. And I don't mean you, either: without anything to go by, no solid ground to stand on, both of us are pretty much guessing. You inherently trust, I inherently distrust, but I can't see a way for us to find out who the NSA is spying on and why. But even just the acceptance of that annoys me :/

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