Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why we can't go back to business as usual post-PRISM

mailman.stanford.edu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 186 posts

Re: Why we can't go back to business as usual post-PRISM

#91

Post by danenania »

inthewind wrote: post #89
TelmoMenezes wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The scary thing is this: these people were already voted away. People voted for Obama when he promised the end of warrantless wiretapping, the closing down of Guantanamo, etc. Why should voters believe the next guy who promises these things? It feels hopeless.

Welcome to democracy (or rather the facade)! Does the US president actually have that much individual power anyway? I wish it was more like the film Dave, inasmuch as that the president on his first day questions all the wrongs, and suggests to put them all right! People love a figurehead to moan and blame, but it's not ever as simple as that. I'm not making excuses for Obama, but he's also up against the establishme…

"I'm not making excuses for Obama, but he's also up against the establishment."

Obama's not 'up against' the establishment. He is the establishment. After everything he's done, how on earth are people still ascribing good intentions to this guy?

Re: Why we can't go back to business as usual post-PRISM

#92

Post by eli_gottlieb »

b6 wrote: post #17

I'm a peaceful person, but this issue has been simmering in my head for years, and I find myself actually looking forward to some kind of meaningful conflict. I'm sick, sick, sick to death of the president issuing denials while they keep building more and more infrastructure against humanity. I think the article is right, that it'll get worse from here, and in a way, I'm glad.

Unfortunately, despite all hopes, Americans persistently persist in not revolting against their government.

I despair of the Revolution coming any time soon.

Re: Why we can't go back to business as usual post-PRISM

#93

Post by eli_gottlieb »

taktix wrote: post #48
bayesianhorse wrote: post #23

For me, this incident is an example where the U.S. democracy failed, pure and simple. Obama made campaign promises to not do surveillance. He was elected and then did it anyway. It's frankly impossible now to change this issue in a democratic fashion. From the outside it often looks as if American politicians are overly busy with a very expensive "game", rather than using the game for the greater good.

It's because the American people voted for looks over substance. Obama has no morals and no spine, but he looks and sounds like a Hollywood star. Obama is just the US population's reflection in the mirror.

I voted for Stewart Alexander. Look what good that did.

Re: Why we can't go back to business as usual post-PRISM

#94

Post by phryk »

jebeng wrote: post #74
fargolime wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Looking forward to conflict" comment auto-logged, reference #391Z328. Report to the proper authorities within 24 hours for interrogation. You've been auto-added to the no-fly list. That's likely what will happen from here, because only a small percentage of American voters care about this issue.

It's people have made these jokes online for as long as I can remember. It's sad that it's even remotely possible now that this might become a reality. And you wouldn't even know it.

Oh, you mean a bit like this?

"He found he was unable to print out a boarding pass […] when he approached ticket agents, they were blocked from producing a boarding pass for him without first calling a Secure Flight number at the Department of Homeland Security. […] ticket agents told him he was on a federal watchlist."

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/11/hacker-border-searc...

If it's not automated now it will be in a few years.

Re: Why we can't go back to business as usual post-PRISM

#95

Post by Amygaz »

Mordor wrote: post #82
TelmoMenezes wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The scary thing is this: these people were already voted away. People voted for Obama when he promised the end of warrantless wiretapping, the closing down of Guantanamo, etc. Why should voters believe the next guy who promises these things? It feels hopeless.

All the more reason to push for Obama's resignation.

And to elect who? Someone who most likely voted for that IAH to start with?

Re: Why we can't go back to business as usual post-PRISM

#96

Post by phryk »

flyinRyan wrote: post #63
pilif wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time people were looking forward to a meaningful conflict, it plunged the whole world into 4 years of war, followed by another 7. Be careful what you wish for. We need a peaceful solution for this. Vote these people away. Replace them by better people. Educate those who think they have nothing to hide.

The time voting would help was gone years and years ago. If you want to make peaceful change now you're going to need to get involved in politics directly (e.g. "The pirate party" but don't call your party that in the US. In fact, I'd call them "democrats" or "republicans", which ever is more popular). Until enough of us do this, things will just continue to get worse. There is no politician out there who truly has y…

I'd say that culture is a much more powerful agent of change than traditional political work could ever be.

Politicians can act as scribes and put down into legislation a part of the cultural ethos, but they don't do much in the way of inspiring that ethos in the first place.

Practice what you preach, call bullshit by its' name.

Re: Why we can't go back to business as usual post-PRISM

#97

Post by phryk »

cabalamat wrote: post #83
jamestc wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You aren't alone. People are organizing protests and preparing letterheads, as they should be, but it all feels just as ineffective as the last time. The ugly truth, as many people know, is that these complaints/protests are built-in to the infrastructure, they're expected and they disrupt absolutely nothing. We need a new conduit for effecting change.

> We need a new conduit for effecting change. In Europe this conduit is called the Pirate Party. If we are to win this fight, it's one of our best vehicles to do so.

At least in Germany a lot of people have become disillusioned by the (german) Pirate Party.

They seem to have degraded into a mix of ridiculous infighting and traditional political party stuff.

I'd much rather see them to push for just one topic: Getting direct democracy.

Right now they are just dispersing all the resources they have (in mind and matter) towards hundreds if not thousands of different topics and don't look like an efficient agent of change at all.

Re: Why we can't go back to business as usual post-PRISM

#98

Post by stcredzero »

Amygaz wrote: post #95
Mordor wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the more reason to push for Obama's resignation.

And to elect who? Someone who most likely voted for that IAH to start with?

IAH also happens to be the code for George Bush International Airport.

Re: Why we can't go back to business as usual post-PRISM

#99

Post by [deleted] »

danenania wrote: post #91
inthewind wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Welcome to democracy (or rather the facade)! Does the US president actually have that much individual power anyway? I wish it was more like the film Dave, inasmuch as that the president on his first day questions all the wrongs, and suggests to put them all right! People love a figurehead to moan and blame, but it's not ever as simple as that. I'm not making excuses for Obama, but he's also up against the establishme…

"I'm not making excuses for Obama, but he's also up against the establishment." Obama's not 'up against' the establishment. He is the establishment. After everything he's done, how on earth are people still ascribing good intentions to this guy?

[deleted]

Re: Why we can't go back to business as usual post-PRISM

#100

Post by jasonlotito »

ak39 wrote: post #85
bigiain wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We (here in .au) had a 4 term Prime Minister defend reneging on election promises by claiming they were "non-core promises" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Government ) The scary thing? That was his _first_ term, and "we" voted him in three more times... "Democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried." - Sir Winston Churchill

False dichotomy. The problem is not Democracy vs every other non-democratic system, it's in the implementation details of the current versions. We just need to refactor Democracy Version 1.0. Far from a rewrite. And where do we begin? Upholding campaign promises, that's where. They must be watertight like contracts where the voters can sue.

You'd have no more campaign promises. And truth be told, what you suggest is dangerous. In fact, it would create a situation worse than the one we have now.

I'd rather our politicians tell us what they want to do. Then, when they are in power, and have the means to do those things, balance it with the knowledge they've gathered from having access to all that power.

Maybe the issue is that politicians too easily make promises they cannot make. Maybe it's our problem for demanding politicians keep promises despite new information.

How many lives is a promise worth?

Post reply on HN