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Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

#91

Post by jan_g »

rlpb wrote: post #88
jan_g wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more than a baby box. I do not know how familiar you are with some European countries' social system, but young parents are usually given quite a few months of vacation time and salary from the state, a sort of children allowance until a child is 18 years old (100EUR or so), tax deductions for every child until a child is 18 years old, kindergarten 'bonuses', free health care for every child and similar. So this…

> And I am not arguing against it, just that in the end someone has to pay for it. What if it turned out that the baby pays for it because the improved average upbringing allows the baby to earn more and consequently pay more tax in absolute terms, though not in percentage terms? Would it be a cost to the taxpayer then?

As it happens, I am one of such tax payers, since I live in a country with similar arrangements for young parents as Finland. Also, by having two kids, I have been twice a beneficiary of this system. To repeat, I completely support such system, I just don't agree with ProcessBlue's statement, quote, ".. bit fuzzy but if I remember correctly the FREE tier of forming babby in Finland includes ...".

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

#93

Post by arethuza »

vidarh wrote: post #66
ivix wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting that the health system in Finland has the concept of paid 'luxury' options. In the UK NHS that would be considered anathema.

Most NHS hospitals allow you to pay for certain extra services. TV and internet access is common. In many hospitals it also includes being able to pay for private rooms with en suite facilities. EDIT: Specifically regarding maternity wards: We did pay extra for a private room when my son was born, so I have first hand experience with that.

We payed for a private room as well. I did note that this wasn't something that was "advertised" but if you asked they were more than happy to give you a room.

Mind you this was 13 years ago in the old maternity hospital here in Edinburgh - don't know what the arrangement is in the new Royal Infirmary.

NB My wife gave birth in a private room in the midwife run "Normal Delivery Unit" which was fantastic - we only asked for a private room a few hours after she had given birth after she had been moved to a ward.

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

#94

Post by glennos »

I imagine the stress that this would take out of new parents' lives would be enormous. Apart from the physical and financial pressures, one thing that I think would weigh on me most when becoming a dad would be "are we doing this right?" Especially for those that don't have parents or an experienced role model to help them, at least as a concept this seems like a fantastic program for a govt to run.

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

#95

Post by arethuza »

pointyhats wrote: post #59
alan_cx wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but in the UK there is a wind of judgemental tabloid nastiness in this area. Lies like this are made up daily, based on a very small minority, and huge chunks of people are tarred with the same brush. So, yeah, where is the research? Well, there is none, because apart from tabloid smearing lies, there is none. What is "obvious" is how nasty people are in the UK towards the poor working classes, who are under cons…

And by making the distinction of working class are you not contributing to that bias? I treat all people as classless. The people described by myself are not bound by class, but by attitude and morals. There is no class distinction involved. The problem is not specific to one traditional "class". The whole "tabloid smearing lies" drivel is another form of enforced division by promoting classes of reading. This sort o…

"I treat all people as classless."

Interesting then that you made that comment about Asda and not Waitrose.

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

#96

Post by vidarh »

arethuza wrote: post #93
vidarh wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most NHS hospitals allow you to pay for certain extra services. TV and internet access is common. In many hospitals it also includes being able to pay for private rooms with en suite facilities. EDIT: Specifically regarding maternity wards: We did pay extra for a private room when my son was born, so I have first hand experience with that.

We payed for a private room as well. I did note that this wasn't something that was "advertised" but if you asked they were more than happy to give you a room. Mind you this was 13 years ago in the old maternity hospital here in Edinburgh - don't know what the arrangement is in the new Royal Infirmary. NB My wife gave birth in a private room in the midwife run "Normal Delivery Unit" which was fantastic - we only aske…

Generally the criteria is that clinical needs go first, so if someone needs a room, they'll chuck you right out again (and not charge you), which is fair enough, but also a reason for them not to create a too high expectation or demand.

Overall the NHS trusts have quite a bit of latitude in carrying out private services to offset costs by increasing utilisation of facilities and equipment (private surgeries are often carried out in NHS operating rooms, for example), but the extent to which they take advantage of it varies quite a bit.

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

#97

Post by cdoxsey »

Infant mortality rates can also be quite deceptive in that they aren't measured the same way between countries.

"Even the use of the most fundamental term, “live births,” greatly distorts infant-mortality rates, because often the infants who die the soonest after birth are not counted as live births outside the United States."

http://www.nationalreview.com/content/infant-mortality-decep...

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

#98

Post by squidi »

xmr wrote: post #41

Is it possible to buy these and get them shipped outside of Finland?

Seems not sadly, but it would make a great gift.

Lots of people will complain about how the state is getting involved in peoples lives etc so it would have been funny if we could buy them online from overseas too, thus creating a profitable business

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

#99

Post by rlpb »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #89
jan_g wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more than a baby box. I do not know how familiar you are with some European countries' social system, but young parents are usually given quite a few months of vacation time and salary from the state, a sort of children allowance until a child is 18 years old (100EUR or so), tax deductions for every child until a child is 18 years old, kindergarten 'bonuses', free health care for every child and similar. So this…

... but young parents are usually given quite a few months of vacation time and salary from the state, a sort of children allowance until a child is 18 years old (100EUR or so)... In the US we earn 30% more money than Finland (adjusted for cost of living, which is quite high in Finland), so we can just pay for these things with savings if we want to. Most of us choose not to, suggesting these benefits are worth less…

> Most of us choose not to, suggesting these benefits are worth less to us than money.

Or you could be suffering from a Tragedy of the Commons. Your American viewpoint may be preventing you all from pooling your money together and saving overall. Instead you all have to act as individuals, and in this case it is in your individual best interests to not spend the money, since you only get the saving if you all act together.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes

#100

Post by icebraining »

rlpb wrote: post #88
jan_g wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more than a baby box. I do not know how familiar you are with some European countries' social system, but young parents are usually given quite a few months of vacation time and salary from the state, a sort of children allowance until a child is 18 years old (100EUR or so), tax deductions for every child until a child is 18 years old, kindergarten 'bonuses', free health care for every child and similar. So this…

> And I am not arguing against it, just that in the end someone has to pay for it. What if it turned out that the baby pays for it because the improved average upbringing allows the baby to earn more and consequently pay more tax in absolute terms, though not in percentage terms? Would it be a cost to the taxpayer then?

It depends. "Brain drain" is a real problem for many nations.
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