The Year of Dressing Formally (2008) • Hacker News Board

Re: The Year of Dressing Formally (2008)

#91

Post by overgryphon » Tue, May 28, 2013, 10:42 PM UTC

jamesaguilar wrote: post #79

sliverstorm wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I suspect the disconnect centers around utility. Beautiful architecture can be beautifully functional too. Good weather is pretty, and also comfortable. Greenery is pretty, and cleans the air. Semi-formal and formal wear are practically the antithesis of functional and comfortable. Personally, I have been making an effort to dress up a step or two, but I have to balance this against carrying more changes o…

They may have used to be true, but nowadays with fine wool, it really isn't any more. And let's face it, the level of improvement many of us engineers need to take is not to suits, but even to wearing something nicer than a t-shirt and loose jeans.

It isn't appropriate as a software developer to wear a suit to work. It often isn't even appropriate in an interview as a software developer to wear a suit. It looks ridiculous to wear a suit jacket when the next few layers of your management chain are wearing board shorts and sandals.

Instead, the ideal seems to be to tread a fine line between casual wear and formal wear. Properly fitted clothing is important here- a suit is too formal, loose jeans a bit sloppy, but dark jeans that are tailored to fit are perfect.

This makes shopping in the women's section very difficult- I usually find casual-wear for women a bit inappropriate for work (clothing is often too sheer and unlined, too clingy, or necklines too low), and clothing marketed as office-wear would make most assume I was a secretary or in advertising/human resources/ect. A mixture seems to work well. Rather than dressing up casual clothing, I find more success dressing down nicer pieces. For example, a nice dress with a denim jacket or a silk blouse with jeans and flats.

My male friends seem to have a similar problem shopping, in which clothes that are made for casual wear are more casual than they would like, but then there is a huge gap from casual to much too formal. Men's clothing doesn't have the problem of many causal clothes being too revealing, but there is also quite a bit less variety available.

TLDR: Ramble about trying to find appropriate software developer wardrobe that has nothing to do with the above comment. Sorry.

Re: The Year of Dressing Formally (2008)

#92

Post by dllthomas » Tue, May 28, 2013, 10:43 PM UTC

devindotcom wrote: post #33

mindcrime wrote: post #15

FWIW, wearing a suit (in the modern "business suit" sense of term) isn't technically "formal" dress. Heck, it isn't even semi-formal. Semi-formal would be a tuxedo (for men), and formal wear would be "morning dress" or "white tie".[1] "Business suits" fall into the category of "lounge suit" which is considered informal dress.[2] [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formal_wear [2]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lounge_su…

The standards can change, as they have before. "Formality" is a relative concept.

They can and do, but it still pays to be aware of the range it currently spans, and I think we're plenty familiar with the lower end.

Re: The Year of Dressing Formally (2008)

#93

Post by sliverstorm » Tue, May 28, 2013, 10:43 PM UTC

zwieback wrote: post #24

toomuchtodo wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once worked at a place that required me to rack servers in a 3 piece suit. Once.

I worked for a client once (a very large logistics firm) where everyone who isn't union had to wear suit and tie, this included all vendors. We were testing some new equipment we built in a sorting facility without any climate control. In July. In Orlando.

At least it wasn't Phoenix.

Re: The Year of Dressing Formally (2008)

#94

Post by overgryphon » Tue, May 28, 2013, 10:46 PM UTC

stouset wrote: post #77

grimlck wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your suit isn't comfortable, then you are wearing the wrong size and should get it tailored.

Cost of t-shirt: $15. Cost of perfectly-tailored suit: $x. Solve for `x < 20`.

If it is appropriate for you to wear a suit for an occasion (outside of church, weddings, and funerals), then you are likely making enough from the position to pay for the suit.

Re: The Year of Dressing Formally (2008)

#95

Post by toomuchtodo » Tue, May 28, 2013, 10:51 PM UTC

zwieback wrote: post #24

toomuchtodo wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once worked at a place that required me to rack servers in a 3 piece suit. Once.

I worked for a client once (a very large logistics firm) where everyone who isn't union had to wear suit and tie, this included all vendors. We were testing some new equipment we built in a sorting facility without any climate control. In July. In Orlando.

UPS?

Re: The Year of Dressing Formally (2008)

#96

Post by MartinCron » Tue, May 28, 2013, 10:53 PM UTC

jsnk wrote: post #10

I wish I can dress nicely in suits, but I don't do it for two reasons. No one dresses in suits in technology sector. Not even CEO. Only team that dress up in our company is legal, and even they are on the more informal side compared to what real formal is. Good suits that look good are expensive. I don't want to wear daddy tier suits, but good looking suits I've seen run well over $500.

I wear a suit (or sport coat) every Friday. Here's what I do:

Buy vintage. You can get an $800 suit for $40 at Goodwill. Treasure hunting is fun. Seriously.

Make light of it. I call it "Fancy Friday" and sometimes refer to it as a "ridiculous affectation" or "grown-up cosplay". People get used to it and now comment when I'm not dressed up on Fridays.

Re: The Year of Dressing Formally (2008)

#97

Post by MartinCron » Tue, May 28, 2013, 10:54 PM UTC

jamesaguilar wrote: post #66

mindcrime wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still want one of those tail-coats though.. and an opera scarf. Just because they look awesome. :-)

I would never discourage you from such a pursuit. I would also love to see someone pull off a full cloak and mantle outside of Game of Thrones. I doubt I will live to see that day, but it would be incredible.

Wearing a black wool overcoat over a full suit isn't the same thing as a cloak and mantle, but it's close.

Living in Seattle helps.

Re: The Year of Dressing Formally (2008)

#98

Post by MartinCron » Tue, May 28, 2013, 10:55 PM UTC

jowiar wrote: post #8

cmbaus wrote: post #3

I just wish more American businessmen would wear decent shoes, such as bluchers or oxfords by Alden or Allen Edmonds, so I don't have to see anymore rubber soled, bicycle toed loafers at the airport: http://instagram.com/p/ZbdZfMsM4G/

Living in SF rendered my leather-soled AEs pretty much useless. Walking up Nob Hill wearing leather soles is pretty much a treadmill. On the casual end of things, backless sandals are equally iffy (despite the SF Birkenstock stereotype).

I nearly killed myself walking down a steep wet Seattle street wearing leather-soled dress boots. At least I would have died looking good.

Re: The Year of Dressing Formally (2008)

#99

Post by solarmist » Tue, May 28, 2013, 10:59 PM UTC

sliverstorm wrote: post #81

npsimons wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a style averse geek I hate myself for saying this, but it really depends. I've never been able to convince myself to go spend at the highest levels (bespoke from Saville row, for instance), but it's supposed to be more comfortable than casual clothing. When I have splurged a bit on nicer clothing, I have found that even a little more quality in clothing can make the difference between stiff and comfortable. It mak…

Oh, I don't mean "formal wear can never be comfortable". I was thinking more of, for example, how I would melt in 100-degree weather in an old-fashioned wool suit. Also, I'm really more concerned with utility/durability than comfort- I mentioned comfort only in passing. My lifestyle tends to be a little rough on clothes. You're certainly right though, quality material and a cut that fits you well is fantastic. I have…

In 100 degree weather you should be wearing a linen or seersucker suit not a wool one. It makes a huge difference.

Being rough on clothes is another matter altogether though.

Re: The Year of Dressing Formally (2008)

#100

Post by overgryphon » Tue, May 28, 2013, 11:04 PM UTC

echohack wrote: post #58

> But I found that a higher level of formality improved my students' learning. My larger classes ran more smoothly. This is the crux of the article, and he provides no proof to back it up. The article says that this is an "experiment", but how did the professor log his activities? How did he measure the change in his student's perception? How did he isolate the variables of his own bias vs. the impact of new clothes…

> My personal opinion is that fashion is a gigantic waste of time. In any and all venues.

In my own (one person, non-experimental) experience, it significantly changes the way people interact with me. That can make a huge difference over time.