You don’t have to feel guilty for oversleeping • Hacker News Board

Re: You don’t have to feel guilty for oversleeping

#91

Post by dionidium » Wed, May 08, 2013, 2:22 AM UTC

endlessvoid94 wrote: post #71

dionidium wrote: post #41

The thing about morning people is you just can't trust them, because a part of them will always believe that night people are lazy; they just can't get over it, no matter how rationally you explain your situation. And you can't trust people like that, because they'll never understand the difference between something they just happen to like or believe and something that is universally Right, Good, and True. To them t…

> they'll never understand the difference between something they just happen to like or believe and something that is universally Right, Good, and True. I guarantee you a "night" person came up with that.

Well, now, that doesn't take much sleuthing. But I'm not sure I get your point.

Re: You don’t have to feel guilty for oversleeping

#92

Post by coolnow » Wed, May 08, 2013, 3:18 AM UTC

stephengillie wrote: post #11

ctdonath wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

find myself waking up in the dead of night at 4am and being completely awake Search for recent threads on sleep referencing "first sleep". Seems the electric light has made us forget most sane humans through most of history would sleep at sunset, then wake a few hours later in a relaxed blissful state, then sleep again. Methinks what you experience (not uncommon) is natural behavior, subverted by not realizing you're…

This sounds like 2-phase sleep caused by sleeping too early.

Is this a thing? I've found myself falling asleep around 10PM (when i normally sleep around 3AM) and waking up about 4 hours later and staying awake for hours on end. I can eventually go back to sleep around 5AM but then i feel like shit for the rest of the day. Now i make a conscious effort to not sleep too early.

Re: You don’t have to feel guilty for oversleeping

#93

Post by tudorconstantin » Wed, May 08, 2013, 3:31 AM UTC

I think this is just a matter of training and motivation. I am waking up each morning at 5:30am. I love the silence in the morning and the fact that i can do whatever i want, with no interruptions, at top concentration power.

I could be at work at 7 am if i wanted to, but i am a programmer and most of my colleagues get there between 9 and 12, so 8am is just good.

Re: You don’t have to feel guilty for oversleeping

#94

Post by stephengillie » Wed, May 08, 2013, 3:45 AM UTC

derefr wrote: post #85

stephengillie wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Seattle, the amount of time the sun is in the sky varies from 8.5 hours to 16 hours across the year. Do you believe we really need 15 hours of sleep in the winter, but can get by on barely 8 in the summer? I don't think our sleep schedules need to vary THAT much for seasonal disaffectance.

> Do you believe we really need 15 hours of sleep in the winter, but can get by on barely 8 in the summer? Yes, inasmuch as we "need" sleep at all. There are many species that dramatically shift their sleeping patterns over the course of the year--such as never sleeping during months-long migrations--and come out with no "sleep debt" accrued at all. This lends to a conclusion that the brain really just requests a cer…

How do you account for people dying when kept awake for too long?

Re: You don’t have to feel guilty for oversleeping

#95

Post by sixQuarks » Wed, May 08, 2013, 4:29 AM UTC

I wasn't aware I had Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome until I read this. However, this was the main reason I became an entrepreneur. After suffering every morning during high school, I swore to myself that I would never use an alarm clock when I was an adult. I'm happy to say that I've achieved this goal, thanks to DSPS.

Re: You don’t have to feel guilty for oversleeping

#96

Post by fractalsea » Wed, May 08, 2013, 4:56 AM UTC

So pleased I saw this. I overslept this morning and felt shit about it. Luckily the startup I work for doesn't care when I come in, but I know it will just mean it will be even later before I feel tired tonight.

I've had identical problems for as long as I can remember. It's been so hard to track down the cause. I think it's partly stress/anxiety, but it also definitely correlates with being alone, on my computer, late at night.

I installed f.lux but I haven't noticed any difference. I'll try some of these other suggestions and see if the combination makes any difference.

Re: You don’t have to feel guilty for oversleeping

#97

Post by derefr » Wed, May 08, 2013, 4:58 AM UTC

stephengillie wrote: post #94

derefr wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you believe we really need 15 hours of sleep in the winter, but can get by on barely 8 in the summer? Yes, inasmuch as we "need" sleep at all. There are many species that dramatically shift their sleeping patterns over the course of the year--such as never sleeping during months-long migrations--and come out with no "sleep debt" accrued at all. This lends to a conclusion that the brain really just requests a cer…

How do you account for people dying when kept awake for too long?

I didn't say we don't need sleep. I meant more that putting in some sort of effort that then requires sleep to compensate it is a decision our brain makes (or an adaptation it executes), more like putting debt on a credit card than putting fuel in a gas tank. Build up enough debt and you can go bankrupt (i.e. die), but never build up any debt at all and you'll be fine; you just won't have any of the things you could have that required that extra temporary liquidity/leverage to accomplish.

We could probably figure out a drug that would put us into a state where we don't need to sleep, ever--the resulting state just might not be something very much resembling "sentient human consciousness." It might not allow for memory-formation or System 2 analysis, for example, thus making you go through life only relying on the sort of "thinking" you do while dreaming. Animals that don't sleep, or that sleep very little (e.g. horses, at two hours per day) are also likely "stuck" in this state by design.

The real question is whether we could get anything productive done in this state, and that might be possible--it seems somewhat to resemble "flow."

Re: You don’t have to feel guilty for oversleeping

#98

Post by lsc » Wed, May 08, 2013, 5:07 AM UTC

hapless wrote: post #23

You don't have to feel guilty, but you still might get fired. Jason Freedman answers only to shareholders, not a boss, which is why he can decide whether he feels guilty or not.

meh, it's pretty standard, in this area, to have flexible schedules. Almost as standard as letting us ignore the dress code. As a young PFY, I had a supervisor (who never wore shoes.) tell me "I know we said we have a flexible schedule, but I'm going to have to put my foot down and ask you to be here by noon." And I think even that was 'cause I was the pfy; if I was good enough to not need guidance, they probably wouldn't even have gone that far.

And, as far as I can tell, that's how most valley jobs work. heck, I know guys who work for lockheed martin who keep odd schedules. (The guy I know complains that he gets dinged on performance reviews for showing up late, but meh, apparently he's otherwise good enough that they deal with it. We all have priorities.)

Re: You don’t have to feel guilty for oversleeping

#99

Post by btilly » Wed, May 08, 2013, 5:42 AM UTC

deltaqueue wrote: post #64

It seems as though this comments section is filled with self-proclaimed "night owls." I'm curious, have any of you read the linked articles about variables that influence people to remain awake later than they should and have these types of erratic sleep patterns / modified circadian rhythms (heavy computer use / blue light exposure)? And, have any of you tested your own reaction to curtailing these late-night activi…

I have always been a night owl. With or without computers. Even when I spend time camping out doors. I like to stay up, I don't like waking up.

Once as an experiment I began waking up an hour later every day. I went around the clock, felt great, couldn't stop my body from doing it again, had to work hard to avoid it happening a third time.

If days had 25 hours, I'd be all set.

Re: You don’t have to feel guilty for oversleeping

#100

Post by obviouslygreen » Wed, May 08, 2013, 5:44 AM UTC

dionidium wrote: post #41

The thing about morning people is you just can't trust them, because a part of them will always believe that night people are lazy; they just can't get over it, no matter how rationally you explain your situation. And you can't trust people like that, because they'll never understand the difference between something they just happen to like or believe and something that is universally Right, Good, and True. To them t…

The thing about night owls is that you can't trust them, because a part of them will always believe that morning people are just pawns of the system; they just can't get out of it, no matter how many times you tell them they're being gamed by The Man.

If the people who surround you subscribe to either the view you present or the one I did above, it's not a matter of morning or night people, it's a matter of stupid people, and there is no cure.