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JQuery 2.0 Released

blog.jquery.com

91–100 of 226 posts

Re: JQuery 2.0 Released

#91

This is a welcome change. Considering the market share of IE 6, 7 and 8 is pretty minuscule and Google dropping support for IE8 back in November 2012 should be cause enough to drop it from jQuery too. It's great to hear they'll be supporting the older 1.9 branch for users who need to support older versions of IE as not everyone has the luxury of being able to ditch older versions of IE like that. There's no cause for…

Is 31.37% pretty minuscule? I don't think so...

Source: http://www.netmarketshare.com/

Re: JQuery 2.0 Released

#92
The point of separation is simpler jQuery development and reduced file-size for the >= 2.x versions. You will serve two files. You serve 1.9.x to IE 6/7/8 users, and 2.x to everyone else. You save bandwidth. You save money.

Features will be the same. It's OSS folks. It's not like it's ran by a closed-source team at Google who may suddenly pull the plug if it deems the project unpopular. My guess is folks who work in enterprise (where older IE still plagues) will be the big maintainers of 1.9.x.

Re: JQuery 2.0 Released

#93
post #29
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of the biggest projects on the web leading the way in throwing shitty old IE under the bus to help push the modern web forward. They're going to keep big-fixing 1.X so people stuck with IE6/7/8 can keep supporting it, but moving forward with 2.x for modern browsers makes their lives easier in the long run, and provides yet another coffin nail in Microsoft's attempt decade-old attempt to break the web.

They're not so much throwing IE under the bus as throwing developers under the bus that have fortune-500 clients that can only use IE. Some nerd (me) whining about their browser choice is really not going to make their IT director change policies. Granted, I can and will keep using 1.9

Whining about browser choice is never going to accomplish anything. You're speaking the wrong language. Speaking the right language would go something like: “I can increase revenues while decreasing long-term maintenance costs, and I can do it at the current expense level. The only way I can do this for you is if we use this technology.” The person you're pitching couldn't possibly care less about IE/Chrome/Firefox, but they certainly care very much about business metrics.

Re: JQuery 2.0 Released

#94
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Third parties have been trying to throw shitty old IE under the bus for a long, long time and haven't had much success in doing so. On the contrary. Lots of big volume mainstream websites (including even Google properties) have stopped supporting IE6 and some even IE7 for years. For IE6 it has been at least 4 years since most sites stopped caring about it. (Heck, even Microsoft created a site to convince people to…

True, but it took a LONG time - IEs 6 and 7 were released in 2001 and 2006 respectively, so assuming your '4 years ago' stat is correct, that's still 3 years of waiting for a sweet spot of upgrades, by which time IE6 was 8 YEARS old. IE7 still gives me enough traffic (~5%) to require support, so that's a total of 4 active versions I need to cater for. I really hope adoption of latest IE speeds up, but I've been hopin…

I still can't wrap my head around this concept that 5% requires support. Tim Ferriss isn't right about everything, but his bit about firing your worst customers is dead on. The Pareto principle suggests that 20% of your customers cause 80% of your workload, and the sensible thing to do is drop those customers. If it's only 5% instead of 20%, it seems like a no-brainer to me.

Re: JQuery 2.0 Released

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry if I seem cranky, but did you READ the blog post? jQuery 1.9 supports those browsers and the jQuery team still supports it. Do you have a problem with us supporting a second version that can be smaller, faster, and work in places other than obsolete browsers?

Did you consider an alternative to major version bumping, e.g. a slightly different name for this fork, such as jQuery-slim ... or a much better name? :-) I think the problem is that 2.0 just implies 'better' to such an extent that a lot of people will be concerned about 1.9's imminent sunsetting.

If you think about it it's like how Microsoft have handled MSIE. They've dropped support for older OS, ie XP and earlier, in IE9 but are still offering support/patches for IE8.

Re: JQuery 2.0 Released

#96

Serious question. Please hit me with a clue stick. Regarding 1.9, how can "old-IE compatibility often causes problems of its own" and "simplest way to support older browsers is to use jQuery 1.x on your site, since it works for all browsers." both be true at one and the same time?

old-IE compatibility causes problems with the other non-browser platforms they list, e.g. Windows 8 apps, Firefox OS apps, Chrome OS apps, PhoneGap apps, BB10 apps, node.js, etc. For example Win8 apps using jQuery used to log an error on startup every time, probably because of some oldIE compatibility check which didn't work in the not-quite-a-browser environment.

Re: JQuery 2.0 Released

#97
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the speed web development is moving, I don't see much sense in coddling browsers that are more than 2-3 years old.

It all depends on your end goals and your audience. I don't have #'s off the top of my head, but let's say IE8 accounted for 40% of browser usage across your visitors. But IE8 is old. Are you willing to say to 40% of your potentially paying customers "Sorry, but your browser sucks. We're not supporting you."? If you are, great. No coddling necessary. But for other people, they may not be comfortable with the percenta…

You wouldn't say it like that, I hope. You would say, “Here's a link to a browser upgrade that will allow you to enjoy the best product we can offer you. It's completely free, and takes only a few minutes to install!” Also, IE8 accounts for less than 10% of browser usage worldwide now, so the odds of a company having it be 40% are rather slim, unless they specifically target enterprise in which case they dug their own grave and I have no sympathy for them.

Re: JQuery 2.0 Released

#98
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the speed web development is moving, I don't see much sense in coddling browsers that are more than 2-3 years old.

That all changes if your client uses browsers that are more then 2-3 years old, and you are financially dependent on your client being served properly.

You can tell your client to use a new browser. It's all in how you phrase it. Everyone in this thread seems so damn scared of their clients. You have a way to improve their experience of using the internet and using your product. That's an opportunity to embrace, not something to run away from.

Re: JQuery 2.0 Released

#99
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even IE9 is pretty old. It's over 2 years old by now. IE8 is over 4 years old. IE11 will be released soon. How many versions of IE do you intend to support?

How much money can my business afford to lose on a point of principle that no-one else in the company would ascribe any value to whatsoever? Not much. The decision obviously takes into account time spent catering for older browsers, but jQuery eases the problem - at the moment. As a very rough guide, it seems sensible to cater for any browser version representing at least 1% of traffic; IE8 currently represents over…

1%? That seems like an unreasonably low threshold. If 1% of your traffic requires even 5% of your development time, you're getting negative value from that time. I probably wouldn't drop it at 20% either, but I would long before 1%.

Re: JQuery 2.0 Released

#100
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go into a local small business with about [$|€|£]2-5m in turnover per year. A moderately successful veterinary practice comes to mind. They have applications that need to be managed by what is undoubtedly an outsourced IT service, very likely related to some other system (practice management, diagnostic hardware, goofy industry-specific file formats, accounting, back-office, etc.). They will stay on XP for ages becau…

I understand the issues with small businesses--believe me. I also understand that in those environments, getting Firefox installed doesn't magically break everything. The purpose of having a list like this is to record the service providers who do have products out there that break using modern browsers--because they're ripe opportunities for "doing it righter and cheaper". Do people not see how hard they are making…

"Do people not see how hard they are making the lives of future developers (or even their own lives down the road) by continuing to coddle these people?

Your vet example would be happy to switch to a cheaper service (cheaper because the devs were cheaper, because the tech is more modern and less finicky) if it were available, and a hitlist of companies ripe for displacement (due to running old platforms) would help the vet as much as help the devs."

The benefit of change has to outweigh the cost. How long would they have to close, or "click over to the old system" with clients, until they were fully transitioned? These are not organizations that use webapps as their primary app delivery platform. (Or, rather, they don't know that's an embedded IE control in their x-ray viewing application.)

Who cares about the devs? Seriously, they are the group that should be paying for access to the markets, either via currency (buying software that makes this problem go away) or by labor (maintaining ten versions of their sites).

The problem is that most developers, and web developers especially, are squatting on the properties of large organizations with goals that are not always aligned with theirs. At best, we own our way down to the OS system call level. Increasingly, our dependencies are bound much higher in the application stack. .NET and Java versions can be changed out from under us, web browsers can be swapped out, and even features such as HTTP pipelining or keepalive can force us to reevaluate our scaling strategies.

I agree that the lack of control is frustrating. This is the nature of the industry.

For an example in another industry, read about Swatch Group's desire to stop supplying watch movements (and parts) on the open market. ETA has become so central in the industry (very similar to a late 90s MSFT) that the Swiss government became involved in slowing the policy change of a corporate entity. Even so, a number of smaller watchmakers will cease to exist because they won't be able to adapt.

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