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Just Use Sublime Text

delvarworld.github.com

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Re: Just Use Sublime Text

#91

Post by jamesrcole »

ebbv wrote: post #25

Am I the only person in the world who: a) Never thought vim was that hard to learn (and I first learned it when I was a teenager and nobody helped me. I switched when someone on a MUD made fun of me for using pico.) and b) Thinks vanilla vim works just fine. Seriously my vimrc is like 10 lines long and I don't even have it on every server I work on. I don't bother with any plugins. I don't need vim integrated with gi…

Vanilla Vim is pretty sub-optimal for writing prose.

Vim is my text-editor of choice, but it took me a lot of time and effort to customise it to make it more suitable for writing prose.

E.g. the fact that it scrolls by logical lines rather than screen lines (note I that I said scrolls. I'm aware that you can navigate by screen lines by using gj and gk). The way this makes the text scroll by unpredictable amounts when you have paragraphs of text is pretty jarring. You can hack around that by getting the text to auto-format and break lines up into screen lines, but there's all sorts of niggles with that (and FWIW, it causes some of its own problems, such as making it harder to search for phrases, because words may no longer be separated by just spaces but also possibly linebreaks).

Re: Just Use Sublime Text

#92

Post by jaequery »

i think a lot of people miss the whole point of emacs/vim. it sure ain't the best IDE out there, but when it comes to just pure raw editing fun-factor, it just can not be beat. i can not get the same enjoyment when i edit using anything else, there are emacs/vim plugins for sublimetext but still it doesn't have that same feel to it.

it all comes down to the vim/emacs "experience". it hooks you in and won't let you go, i'm pretty sure most vim/emacs gets some sort of high when using it.

but it's not all black and white here, there are time and place for everything. i love emacs and i can't live without it. for working on a few files at a time, i'll use emacs. but when i have a "project" to work on (10-15 files), i do use an IDE, in my case Aptana Studios (as it has the best emacs compatibility out there and has a very nice code formatter which is also top notch and you can easily customize it to how you want it to be formatted i.e; coding standards).

so at the end of the day, they both have their place. sometimes i need the laser-guided efficiency of emacs, sometimes (especially beginning of a project), i just roll-up my sleeves and get it going on an IDE.

Re: Just Use Sublime Text

#93

Post by DelvarWorld »

derengel wrote: post #73
jcoder wrote: post #19

"The Editor You Need To Read (At Least) Two Books On To Use Well" Read :help. I haven't read any books on Vim so I'm not sure if there are any good ones, but you most definitely do not "need" to read one. "The point of a mouse is to make arbitrary on screen jumps efficient, and it’s very good at doing that. Don’t you ever think you can beat a mouse. Only in very few edge cases will it even matter." That's kind of rid…

"700 hand written lines in my .vimrc, and 45 plugins" I may have found the problem. Learn to use the editor. This ^^, say no more.

I'm guessing this means you use :Ex instead of nerdtree? I guess you use vimgrep instead of ack.vim or others? I'm guessing you browse your undo tree manually with :undolist ? Can you please write a blog post explaining how to use all of these efficiently? Can you also document how you see inline git changes to the file you're working on? While you're there can you also explain which part of vanilla vim lets you do fuzzy file finding?

Learn to use the editor? Are you just editing your visual basic files or what?

Edit: if you could also point out which of my vimrc lines are fighting against the vim way and demonstrate that I don't know how to use my editor, that would be super cool.

Re: Just Use Sublime Text

#94

Post by jamesjporter »

ths wrote: post #63
jcoder wrote: post #19

"The Editor You Need To Read (At Least) Two Books On To Use Well" Read :help. I haven't read any books on Vim so I'm not sure if there are any good ones, but you most definitely do not "need" to read one. "The point of a mouse is to make arbitrary on screen jumps efficient, and it’s very good at doing that. Don’t you ever think you can beat a mouse. Only in very few edge cases will it even matter." That's kind of rid…

Even if the mouse were quicker on average for long jumps, the moving of the hand from mouse to keyboard feels like more of a combo breaker, more distracting. Speed is very important, but equally important is for the editing experience to have a low attention footprint to leave more space for the train of thought behind the changes being made.

His point about touchpads is spot on though. I often find myself jumping around by clicking when I code with my laptop and no peripherals (there's no "combo breaker" since my hands are sitter so close to the trackpad anyway), but when I get home and plug in my mouse and external keyboard, it becomes much more of a hassle to click and I switch to a more keyboard-centric workflow.

Re: Just Use Sublime Text

#95

Post by DelvarWorld »

MetaCosm wrote: post #29
ebbv wrote: post #25

Am I the only person in the world who: a) Never thought vim was that hard to learn (and I first learned it when I was a teenager and nobody helped me. I switched when someone on a MUD made fun of me for using pico.) and b) Thinks vanilla vim works just fine. Seriously my vimrc is like 10 lines long and I don't even have it on every server I work on. I don't bother with any plugins. I don't need vim integrated with gi…

He tried to turn vim into an IDE, a role that vim specifically decided not to embrace, that will make anyone go a little crazy. Vim is good at editing text, is extremely portable, and works great with a partner in crime like tmux. I have used vim for 12+ years, and the complexity of his setup makes me a bit dizzy.

What languages do you normally edit? Are you employed?

Re: Just Use Sublime Text

#96

Post by irahul »

tikhonj wrote: post #61
ths wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I rock back and forth, depending on the languages I'm using. Emacs does more, but is in my experience more kludgy, even after having in aggregate spent many days customizing it (maybe it would rub better if I wasn't hardwired to the vi/vim modal editing/motions method). Vim feels cleaner and less annoying, but sometimes the easy integration with external tools tips the balance in emacs' favor. E.g. I use vim for Rail…

Emacs can be pretty pretty--perhaps not actively pretty, but very elegant in a minimalist sort of way. I'm pretty happy with how mine looks[1], for example. [1]: http://jelv.is/emacs-blackboard.png Also, have you tried Evil? Apparently it's a very good Vim-emulation mode for Emacs, highly recommended over Viper.

> Emacs can be pretty pretty--perhaps not actively pretty, but very elegant in a minimalist sort of way. I'm pretty happy with how mine looks[1], for example.

Obligatory vim can be pretty too, and I am happy with how mine looks.

http://i.imgur.com/ZC2xDxH.png

On a related note, I like how my terminal vim looks better than how the GUI looks. I don't use emacs much, but same goes for emacs.

Re: Just Use Sublime Text

#97

Post by namuol »

Thanks for articulating the thoughts I've been having for the last few months after switching to Sublime Text.

I registered my copy the instant after I installed my first package with Package Control and it Just Worked.

Yes. It has improved my quality of life as a developer, and my pride isn't even damaged that much after using Vim for the last 7 years.

Re: Just Use Sublime Text

#98

Post by danneu »

baby wrote: post #80
TallboyOne wrote: post #69

These articles are just idiotic. Mouse as fast as the keyboard except a 'few edge cases'? Get out of here. Vim destroys using a mouse every day of the week, and unless the highest skillset you've learned is fingerpainting, it's not that hard. Sit down for 2 days, stop being a bitch, learn the keybindings, and you're good.

If you need to make a random selection somewhere far away in the text. The mouse was made to do that. Not a multiple keyboard combination. ( I mean "if you're using a trackpad").

Is the mouse for clicking the "incremental search" button?

Re: Just Use Sublime Text

#99

Post by kevinnk »

bcoates wrote: post #75
Puer wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I switched from nano to vim a few hours ago. When I first installed Arch Linux all those months ago I was intimidated when I was presented with the choice between nano, the default, and vim, "for experts only." When I used vim for the first time today I expected it to be a lot more "difficult" based on everything I had read/heard prior, but after reaching the Arch Wiki entry I was able to hop right in with no difficu…

Just out of curiosity, what made you decide to change? I've never felt a strong motivation to not just keep using pico/nano, actually putting effort into learning a text editor strikes me as the weirdest hobby ever.

I used to use nano, and for me it was the fact that every one else seemed to love vim, so I felt like I should at least try it out. Honestly, it takes about 20 minutes, max, to get to the level of being able to do what nano can do in vim. And if you want something more, it's not very hard to learn after you get the vim basics. I'm not going to say it's for everyone (especially if you're already used to a full IDE) but I would encourage anyone who's at least a little interested in trying it out for a day.

Re: Just Use Sublime Text

#100

Post by ozataman »

tikhonj wrote: post #61
ths wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I rock back and forth, depending on the languages I'm using. Emacs does more, but is in my experience more kludgy, even after having in aggregate spent many days customizing it (maybe it would rub better if I wasn't hardwired to the vi/vim modal editing/motions method). Vim feels cleaner and less annoying, but sometimes the easy integration with external tools tips the balance in emacs' favor. E.g. I use vim for Rail…

Emacs can be pretty pretty--perhaps not actively pretty, but very elegant in a minimalist sort of way. I'm pretty happy with how mine looks[1], for example. [1]: http://jelv.is/emacs-blackboard.png Also, have you tried Evil? Apparently it's a very good Vim-emulation mode for Emacs, highly recommended over Viper.

Hah, Haskell! Also my primary choice of magic potion :-)
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