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Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

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Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#91

Post by colabug »

ThunderMatt wrote: post #71
adriarichards wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, Thanks for speaking up, contributing your viewpoint on HN and not attacking me. I'm sorry to hear your employer deciding to not to work with you on this and I hope they reconsider, bring you back on and dealing with it constructively. For context, I'm a developer evangelist. That means I'm an advocate for developers, male and female. While I hear abou demanding bosses with impossible deadlines for product launch…

No, you, because of your actions, made a person lose their job. In this environment that is a near death sentence. And with the seeming recent trend of over reacting conventions you knew full well what was going to happen. ( ex. violetblue's issue that I'm sure you are aware of) You acted irresponsibly, publicly, and should feel bad about yourself. You took advantage of a known community issue and leveraged it for yo…

Death sentence? A little extreme, don't you think? Unemployment is pretty low in the tech sector. In the very worst case (no one ever hiring him again [which is unlikely]), he has the skills to create his own projects/business.

I also fail to see what she had to gain by this directly. Best case, she achieves community awareness and growth (which doesn't seem to be happening judging by the threads I've read) and worst case being vilified for speaking out (which is happening).

Jobs are always on the line. If you are at a conference, you are the face of your company and your actions reflect on that company.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#92

Post by DucktourDreams »

Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #57
Xylakant wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem I see here is that you snapped a picture and posted it in public - being prosecutor, judge, jury and executor in one person. That's not how things should work out. There's two sides of the story and I think it would have been better if a neutral party heard both sides instead of public summary execution. The guys conduct may not have been appropriate, but IMHO yours was not as well. Had you done all of th…

Sorry but the company were judge, jury and executor, not her. If you report a crime to the police and as a result the person gets sent to prison did you send them to prison? Of course not. She reported something that happened (which the person in question doesn't deny) - that's a reasonable thing to do. The neutral party you ask for should then be the employer who can listen to both sides of the story and work out th…

People should probably realize they don't need Sendgrid at all. There are plenty of competitors out there, why not switch today?

Amazon SES Postmark SocketLabs MailJet Mailgun Postmark Mandrill PostageApp Postmark

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#93

Post by ianschenck »

zellyman wrote: post #84
colabug wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check out this blog, does a great job of explaining the frustrations of subtle sexism. "You, person who told me to lighten up, saw one little thing. It didn't seem like a big deal, did it? One little line! One joke! One comment! But it's not just one thing to me: it's one of thousands that I've had to endure since I was old enough to be told that 'X is for boys!' It's probably not even the first thing I've had to dea…

So someone making a joke about sex is exclusionary to you? Why so sex negative?

And here I thought third wave feminism was sex-positive.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#94

Post by femaledev »

colabug wrote: post #91
ThunderMatt wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you, because of your actions, made a person lose their job. In this environment that is a near death sentence. And with the seeming recent trend of over reacting conventions you knew full well what was going to happen. ( ex. violetblue's issue that I'm sure you are aware of) You acted irresponsibly, publicly, and should feel bad about yourself. You took advantage of a known community issue and leveraged it for yo…

Death sentence? A little extreme, don't you think? Unemployment is pretty low in the tech sector. In the very worst case (no one ever hiring him again [which is unlikely]), he has the skills to create his own projects/business. I also fail to see what she had to gain by this directly. Best case, she achieves community awareness and growth (which doesn't seem to be happening judging by the threads I've read) and worst…

Her website is called "butyouragirl" and you don't see what she has to gain by shaming men developers? She calls herself an "activist" but uses the fact that she is FEMALE to get ahead, as opposed to the quality of her work. Joan of Arc would be rolling in her grave.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#95

Post by johngalt »

Time for the bigotry test:

Lets reverse the genders. It's a woman making the sexualized comments to a friend, and a male attendee eavesdrops. Then he takes a picture her without her consent. Immediately posts said picture online. She loses her job.

What would the response be?

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#97

Post by Demonspawn »

Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #86
jorgenev wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How fragile are women, really? It seems amazing to me that they don't all just shatter the day they are born (from what I read on the internet at least).

It's not a case of how fragile they are, it how much they have been, and still are, disadvantaged by the way society is structured. Things have improved in recent years but look at average salaries, representation in government, representation at senior levels in companies and so on and tell me that it's all sorted. And if women aren't being fairly represented at the top (unless you're saying that there have in histo…

Women are fairly represented at the top and at the bottom. They are mostly missing from both ends of the spectrum. If you understood about the differences in expression between males and females (it's not just humans that follow these trends) then you would recognize that while men tend towards greatness and failure, women tend to be average.

Mother nature was too smart to waste reproductive potential on environment testing.

You're trying to solve a "problem" that isn't, and wrecking what works in your attempt.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#98

Post by femaledev »

norabean wrote: post #60
zshprompt wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adria, its the photo that's the problem. Using to identify the people in question is OK. Posting it to the internet is wrong. Unlike your explanation states you did not let the staff resolve it. You took matters into your own hands, and served up justice vigilante style. Just as someone has to watch their mouth, you also have responsibilities. I am sure you are sorry mr-hank lost his job. But just like his dumb ass c…

Yea I am on accord with you on this. This is a case where she tried to make things better, but her slight immaturity made someone lose their job, and now kind of makes her look worse. cringe why do the people who think they are going to help us (women) the most, make us look the worst at times. I just feel both parties should have communicated to each other. She didn't need to make this about social media and a fight…

Adria, right in line with this comment, your blog post is out of control. You took it personally by taking things you heard earlier in the day and unleashed it on one person. You have to own up and address that your behavior was immature and irresponsible as a person. You should have turned around and told them you could hear and were offended. If there was not proper apology then, contact security. IN NO WAY was it appropriate to post a picture of them in their company's shirts and take something out of context, let alone make a claim that it was a "feminist action" or that you were acting as the "Joan of Arc of the digital age."

You want to do something that fits with your supposed goal set that you keep talking about. Own up to your behavior and take a stand for what is actually right. His company did nothing to defend him for fear of looking bad. At the same time that company and other companies allow behavior that you are so opposed to happen in offices all over the bay.

If you want to be a leader than take an honest evaluation of what beliefs are for the better whole and what you are taking personally and reacting to. I am embarrassed that you are representing us as a female activist because you are actually making it HARDER to gain equality in the space.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#99

Post by colabug »

ianschenck wrote: post #90
colabug wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It creates a sexualized environment, here's a good article: http://geekfeminism.org/2012/10/01/when-sex-and-porn-are-on-... It's hard to understand the "hero" feeling unless you've been quiet and avoided speaking out on similar (and often bigger) events. It feels good to stand up for your fellow females and community, even if you get negative public attention for it. I think more things big and small should be addres…

Hey, sorry. I didn't mean to write "real, abusive situation". I meant "really abusive situation", as in "very abusive situation". It appears I cannot correct it. I was tired. Having a discussion with folks like you requires tiring surgical precision with rhetoric. It's interesting that given the two possible interpretations, you picked the most offensive. You should be careful with that - not everyone out there is ob…

I'm glad you consider yourself an ally to the cause of women in tech.

However, your claim of my looking for offense is incorrect. My comment was an aside, a point for reflection on the power of naming something as important or not.

Any internet communication requires surgical rhetoric. The English language has a myriad of ways to express things and it's not always clear what is meant when communications lack human interaction (e.g. tone of voice, body language).

It is tiring to translate thoughts, experiences, and feelings into a digestible and understandable format.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#100

Post by zshprompt »

norabean wrote: post #60
zshprompt wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adria, its the photo that's the problem. Using to identify the people in question is OK. Posting it to the internet is wrong. Unlike your explanation states you did not let the staff resolve it. You took matters into your own hands, and served up justice vigilante style. Just as someone has to watch their mouth, you also have responsibilities. I am sure you are sorry mr-hank lost his job. But just like his dumb ass c…

Yea I am on accord with you on this. This is a case where she tried to make things better, but her slight immaturity made someone lose their job, and now kind of makes her look worse. cringe why do the people who think they are going to help us (women) the most, make us look the worst at times. I just feel both parties should have communicated to each other. She didn't need to make this about social media and a fight…

Yeah, this is passive aggressive stuff. The guy said you even smiled at him as you took the picture.

I actually read more of Adria's site and I read http://butyoureagirl.com/13871/success-against-the-odds-fill....

"Because of my experiences growing up, I have triggers. This means that I’m always scanning for danger; for situations that seem like something from the past that could hurt me. When I recognize something that matches, I can overreact and feel intense fear, anger or anxiety."

Which explains a lot. I am shocked to read about Adria's experiences as a child, and would urge everyone to go a little easier on her.

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