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Lord British launches “Shroud of the Avatar” on Kickstarter

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Re: Lord British launches “Shroud of the Avatar” on Kickstarter

#91

Post by gavanwoolery »

papsosouid wrote: post #52
autarch wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or ... this is a good way for him to see if there's actual interest in the product. And given his track record of actually finishing stuff, it seems like this is relatively low risk as far as Kickstarter projects go.

Neither of your points address the concern I raised. This is a guy who paid $30M to go in to space for fun. A guy who lives in a castle. If he wants to make a game, he can. He doesn't need kickstarter at all. He is simply using it to make a game for free, rather than investing in it personally. The idea behind kickstarter was to allow people who couldn't get funding through traditional channels an opportunity to appe…

EA acquired Origin for $35,000,000. If I remember correctly, Garriott only walked with $20,000,000 -- before taxes. I think his lawsuit with NC Soft netted him $32 million -- before taxes as well. 52 million taxed is maybe 30 million out the door (very rough estimate here). His space trip cost 30 million alone, nevermind everything else in his life. I would estimate that Garriott probably has a few million dollars in the bank, none of which he should have to risk on a venture that fans are willing to pay for.

Re: Lord British launches “Shroud of the Avatar” on Kickstarter

#92

Post by picklefish »

simonsarris wrote: post #28

I'm glad that "Meaningful PvP" was singled out. PvP is important to me and its one of the things that Ultima Online got right that vast swaths of MMOs since have floundered with (in my opinion). In parts of the world (Felucca[1]), UO was a rare RPG where anyone could kill anyone, for any reason, but with the repercussion that they would be branded a "Bad person" (visible with a gray or red name instead of blue). Stea…

While UO was my favorite game of all time, this is not UO. I won't be helping fund this. Garriot does not have a track record anymore. He's had failure after failure post-UO.

He needs to take a step back and look at the successful games that have taken off recently that have roots in UO. My best example is DayZ. You run around with items that if you die fall on your body. Weapons have low relative value like UO. You can trust no one. People love the hell out of this game and it embodies what UO was to a lot of people. Unforgiving and harsh, but so much fun.

I'm disappointed where he's going with this but with what he's made post-UO I'm not surprised. I never expected him to create the next UO.

Re: Lord British launches “Shroud of the Avatar” on Kickstarter

#93

Post by lnanek2 »

Really preferred the original title on this Hacker News story. More people know what Ultima is, and the creator launching a new project means something to far more people than his specific nick or the new projects name. The submitter's title was much better.

Re: Lord British launches “Shroud of the Avatar” on Kickstarter

#95

Post by danielweber »

gavanwoolery wrote: post #6

I grew up on the Ultima series - in fact it is exclusively the reason I became a programmer and game developer. I do not know how good this recent iteration will be, but at least it looks like Richard is keeping a close ear to his community. In all honesty though I would have settled for a 2D/isometric non-MMO (in the spirit of Ultima 7) -- I think that's where his original fans lie.

It was Ultima III that first made me realize that all data lived on the disk and that I could alter all of it. And I did. Maybe I'm weird but it's fun to read the assembly for Ultima 3.

I was stuck in the Apple world so I stopped playing after U5. I bought the Ultima-giftpack on GOG.com before Christmas, but still have only had the time to work through the first 3. I'm savoring them, still.

Re: Lord British launches “Shroud of the Avatar” on Kickstarter

#96

Post by lnanek2 »

wodow wrote: post #38
simonsarris wrote: post #28

I'm glad that "Meaningful PvP" was singled out. PvP is important to me and its one of the things that Ultima Online got right that vast swaths of MMOs since have floundered with (in my opinion). In parts of the world (Felucca[1]), UO was a rare RPG where anyone could kill anyone, for any reason, but with the repercussion that they would be branded a "Bad person" (visible with a gray or red name instead of blue). Stea…

Vote yes to permanent death [1] in MMOs! Richard Bartle: "[without permanent death] Newbies (and not-so-newbies) feel they can never catch up. The people in front will always be in front, and there's no way to overtake them. The horizon advances at the speed you approach it." [2] [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_death [2] Designing Virtual Worlds, 2003

Never catch up isn't really true, it depends on the game. I prefer perma-death games, and often you see a situation where you will reach max levels in the game in one month or less if you work really hard or have expert assistance. Of course item collecting might take a year if your guild doesn't equip you, and skill building might take a life time. Wow had to do what they do to build a never ending money sapping treadmill, but it isn't the only way.

Re: Lord British launches “Shroud of the Avatar” on Kickstarter

#97

Post by Draiken »

warfangle wrote: post #63
simonsarris wrote: post #28

I'm glad that "Meaningful PvP" was singled out. PvP is important to me and its one of the things that Ultima Online got right that vast swaths of MMOs since have floundered with (in my opinion). In parts of the world (Felucca[1]), UO was a rare RPG where anyone could kill anyone, for any reason, but with the repercussion that they would be branded a "Bad person" (visible with a gray or red name instead of blue). Stea…

I played back before the trammel/felucca split. (I was a beta player -- people who play MMO betas these days are spoiled compared to how UO beta was; I still have the install CD that we had to pay s/h for! Ah, 1996.) I still think the split was a bad idea. I think of Eve now the way I thought of UO back then: if you can't afford to lose it, don't leave town with it.

Being an EVE player and lover, I still think this would be even more awesome with the good old knights and mages... If this gets to that, it'll be a very worthy game to play :)

Re: Lord British launches “Shroud of the Avatar” on Kickstarter

#98

Post by lnanek2 »

papsosouid wrote: post #42

It is pretty sad that kickstarter gets abused like this so much. Garriott is filthy rich, and has been in the game industry for decades. There is absolutely no need for him to be seeking financing from us, he could pay for it a dozen times over out of his own pocket. His reputation means he could easily get actual funding if he doesn't want to risk his own money. But instead, he abuses the willingness of ordinary peo…

Even rich people here in SV often take investment for their new startups after the first. It's silly to go it alone, risk everything, and not recruit people with skin in the game. Even if he didn't need the money, it's worth it for the PR alone, which will benefit everyone into the game since it will take longer to die a lonely death.

Re: Lord British launches “Shroud of the Avatar” on Kickstarter

#99

Post by gavanwoolery »

bstar77 wrote: post #25
gavanwoolery wrote: post #6

I grew up on the Ultima series - in fact it is exclusively the reason I became a programmer and game developer. I do not know how good this recent iteration will be, but at least it looks like Richard is keeping a close ear to his community. In all honesty though I would have settled for a 2D/isometric non-MMO (in the spirit of Ultima 7) -- I think that's where his original fans lie.

My Ultima experience started with VI, but I remember distinctively walking into Electronics Boutique and seeing Ultima VII on the shelf for the first time. I could not believe the screenshots were real, it looked like everything a RPG should be. Ultima VI is was really got me into coding world simulations, but Ultima VII really showed the potential of the genre. I think that's why Ultima VIII and IX were such a disap…

I started on V but VI was really a leap forward for me. There was an Electronics Boutique in the Fairfield Mall (a good half hour from where I grew up) which was an amazing experience as a kid: you would walk into a store and learn about 50 new games, no trailers, just your imagination fueled by box art. The internet has kind of destroyed that sense of wonder/mystery, I feel sorry for future generations. :)

Re: Lord British launches “Shroud of the Avatar” on Kickstarter

#100

Post by papsosouid »

gavanwoolery wrote: post #91
papsosouid wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither of your points address the concern I raised. This is a guy who paid $30M to go in to space for fun. A guy who lives in a castle. If he wants to make a game, he can. He doesn't need kickstarter at all. He is simply using it to make a game for free, rather than investing in it personally. The idea behind kickstarter was to allow people who couldn't get funding through traditional channels an opportunity to appe…

EA acquired Origin for $35,000,000. If I remember correctly, Garriott only walked with $20,000,000 -- before taxes. I think his lawsuit with NC Soft netted him $32 million -- before taxes as well. 52 million taxed is maybe 30 million out the door (very rough estimate here). His space trip cost 30 million alone, nevermind everything else in his life. I would estimate that Garriott probably has a few million dollars in…

And the millions of dollars he made owning origin while they produced hit games.

>none of which he should have to risk on a venture that fans are willing to pay for.

I am amazed at the amount of anti-entrepreneur sentiment here on HN of all places. How do people seriously suggest that an entrepreneur should not have to invest anything in their own venture?

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