Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Elon Musk's Data Doesn't Back Up His Claims of New York Times Fakery

theatlanticwire.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 262 posts

Re: Elon Musk's Data Doesn't Back Up His Claims of New York Times Fakery

#91

Post by lawdawg »

onethumb wrote: post #37

I thought the most convincing part of Elon's post was his 3rd bullet point, which relies on no data outside of the article, and which this Atlantic Wire journalist ignores entirely: "In his article, Broder claims that “the car fell short of its projected range on the final leg.” Then he bizarrely states that the screen showed “Est. remaining range: 32 miles” and the car traveled “51 miles," contradicting his own stat…

Actually it did when the car reported 90 the night before and a call to Tesla assured him that a quick charge would "re-calibrate" the system because of a software bug.

Re: Elon Musk's Data Doesn't Back Up His Claims of New York Times Fakery

#92

Post by waterlesscloud »

OGinparadise wrote: post #71
zevyoura wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're arguing a straw man point; while the speed difference may have contributed to the discharge, I don't believe anyone's arguing it made the difference.

Not really, if you look at Tesla's blog post, they even highlighted that went at 80mph for a while or once. Why did they do that? To prove that he didn't write a book (a story wouldn't fit it) and detail every speed he drove or because they speed matters?

Speed affects ICE cars range too, and at 80 it can be a significant effect.

Re: Elon Musk's Data Doesn't Back Up His Claims of New York Times Fakery

#94

Post by smackfu »

onethumb wrote: post #37

I thought the most convincing part of Elon's post was his 3rd bullet point, which relies on no data outside of the article, and which this Atlantic Wire journalist ignores entirely: "In his article, Broder claims that “the car fell short of its projected range on the final leg.” Then he bizarrely states that the screen showed “Est. remaining range: 32 miles” and the car traveled “51 miles," contradicting his own stat…

One interesting tidbit is that those quotes are from the graphic that ran with the story, and the graphic refers to Broder in the third person as a "Washington-based reporter". I wonder if he was responsible for the graphic.

Re: Elon Musk's Data Doesn't Back Up His Claims of New York Times Fakery

#95

Post by niggler »

halviti wrote: post #87
danso wrote: post #72

This whole controversy has been a little depressing to read...not that the Tesla vs. NYT discussions here have been worse than on other forums, but just because it shows how technical minded people are as easily swayed by preconceptions and alliances as more ostensibly non-scientific minds. How many words have been expended in the other HN thread to allege that Broder -- after most have already established that he is…

I've read all the arguments on both sides, and while both have made good points, there is one that stands out. This reporter clearly barely made any attempt at recharging his empty vehicle in Norwich, and then attempted a drive well beyond the car's capabilities, then made the "running out of fuel" his headline. If he would have done this on gasoline, the result would have been the same, and I think that is getting l…

You haven't read the arguments carefully:

If the car tells you it has half a tank left, and if you find out 10 miles later that the car is almost empty, who do you blame? Do you blame the driver for not having filled the tank or do you blame the car for potentially misreporting the levels?

In context, I wonder if the data recorded by the tesla is indeed the same data reported on the dashboard. What would be cool and definitive is if they could present "screenshots" of what was displayed.

More general, what I would like to see, given the detail Tesla kept on the car, is a log of the phone calls that Broder made to Tesla during the journey.

Re: Elon Musk's Data Doesn't Back Up His Claims of New York Times Fakery

#96

Post by stcredzero »

bigiain wrote: post #75
OGinparadise wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would that work with traffic police? who cares, but usually yes, at least in US (you go fast, you slow, fast...and police are looking for the worst offender) . My point is: a car that has to be driven with a gazillion, million, billion specific instructions or else it's a brick, maybe it isn't for me or many others. "Your car died and you're in the middle of nowhere because you went 5mph over the recommended by Tesla…

No, the car died because it clearly didn't get charged adequately. I find people's claims that the car is somehow "inadequate" because it needs a full charge every 200 miles to be strange. I guess probably because I ride a motorcycle which gets pretty much exactly that range from a tank, and when I'm riding I've always go a pretty good idea of how much further I can go, and while I'm on a long trip I've always got in…

In the US, people run out of gas and feel like they're the victim of bad luck. In Germany, the officer tisk-tisks you for poor planning and writes you a ticket.

Re: Elon Musk's Data Doesn't Back Up His Claims of New York Times Fakery

#98

Post by eridius »

VMG wrote: post #51

I have the feeling that Musk shot himself in the foot with his original blog post. He accused Broder of a host things, that now are being reduced by some to seemingly critical points to the story while others debate minor points like the point at which the AC was turned on and if Broder missed the charging station or was trying to empty the battery. I think it boils down to this: 1) Does Broders trip represent a typi…

And the answers to that seem to be

1) No, but Broder wants you to think it's yes.

2) Yes, but Broder wants you to think it was no.

Re: Elon Musk's Data Doesn't Back Up His Claims of New York Times Fakery

#99

Post by gamblor956 »

halviti wrote: post #87
danso wrote: post #72

This whole controversy has been a little depressing to read...not that the Tesla vs. NYT discussions here have been worse than on other forums, but just because it shows how technical minded people are as easily swayed by preconceptions and alliances as more ostensibly non-scientific minds. How many words have been expended in the other HN thread to allege that Broder -- after most have already established that he is…

I've read all the arguments on both sides, and while both have made good points, there is one that stands out. This reporter clearly barely made any attempt at recharging his empty vehicle in Norwich, and then attempted a drive well beyond the car's capabilities, then made the "running out of fuel" his headline. If he would have done this on gasoline, the result would have been the same, and I think that is getting l…

Other Tesla owners have reported this exact problem (inaccurate charging gauge) in the Roadster; other reviewers have noted this problem in the Model S. Moreoever, this problem is endemic to all pure-electric vehicles in cold climates, such as Nissan Leafs and Chevy Volts. (Google for references)

Ergo, the likelihood of (1) the reporter not fully charging his car's battery and (2) the fuel guage inaccurately reporting a fully charged battery is the realm of more likely than not.

Re: Elon Musk's Data Doesn't Back Up His Claims of New York Times Fakery

#100

Post by bjourne »

duaneb wrote: post #50
fleitz wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go to a BMW dealership, take an M5 for a test drive, when the car says it was 32 miles left try to drive it 60. It's a 100k car and it won't make that feat either.

I mean, I've never driven a car with a digital gas meter before, but on all the cars I've driven they always have tens of miles when the gas light comes on. EDIT: To be clear, it is extremely stupid to do so.

Doesn't it damage the engine to run completely out of gas? If no, are you sure about it? Really sure? So sure you would take your brand new $100k car and run it out of gas just to see what happens? :)
Post reply on HN