Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing • Hacker News Board

Re: Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

#91

Post by atc » Tue, Feb 12, 2013, 2:18 PM UTC

> A talk at a conference showing girls in bikinis. An API presentation from a sponsor featuring ladies in bras. A demo at a hack day with a slide of women in underwear. A business model canvas workshop using a strip club as an example to illustrate the tool.

Do any of those match the definition of [sexism](https://www.google.com/search?q=define+sexism&ie=utf-8&#...)?

> sex·ism > Noun > Prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically > against women, on the basis of sex.

I bet this is part of the problem: we don't really know how to define (and thus identify) sexism properly.

Re: Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

#92

Post by rmrfrmrf » Tue, Feb 12, 2013, 2:18 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #59

DanBC wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe gender related jokes don't have a place at conferences and work places > I mean, where does this political correctness stop It seems really obvious to me. At work, at a conference, you don't tell racist, sexist, ableist etc jokes. What you do outside work is up to you. (But, if you do it outside work and in public it may complicate things if you have a work related discrimination problem.) > political correct…

> "Political correctness" is often a buzzword used to dismiss people who want to discuss this. Other, better, words exist. "Politeness" is one. "Freedom of expression" is another, though.

I'm sorry you feel that the rules of basic human decency are trampling on your first amendment rights.

Re: Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

#93

Post by coldtea » Tue, Feb 12, 2013, 2:18 PM UTC

Jabbles wrote: post #72

coldtea wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For those who think it doesn't matter, and that there is no sexism and that women aren't be discriminated against due to the pure fact of their gender, be aware that there have been double blinded scientific studies that show that if you change the name of a CV/resume to a female name when applying for science jobs, they don't get as much/as good offers. Then maybe try to fix that instead of complaining about bikin…

We should fix both. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

A lot of us don't think one of the is even a problem.

False_Problem

Re: Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

#94

Post by singular » Tue, Feb 12, 2013, 2:18 PM UTC

Xylakant wrote: post #70

singular wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People laugh when they hear a "racist" joke because it's funny. Maybe race related jokes don't have a place at conferences and work places - I am not sure - but there should be room for jokes about race somewhere, right? I mean, where does this political correctness stop?

Yes, there should be jokes about race, about countries, about religion, children, adults, boys, girls, lesbians, straight, gay, transgender, programmers, computer-illiterates, politicians and laymen or any other way to slice and dice humans into groups. Joking about things is one of the fundamental freedoms we value - it's one way to deal with preconceptions we all have about us and other people. Good jokes take your…

Sure, and my somewhat cheap response misses the subtleties, see my response to JohnnieCache - at a conference with women in attendance and slides/etc. with an obvious 'aren't these women fucking sexy we geeks don't get much of that do we? Haw haw' edge to them, are such 'jokes' really making light of sexism or not? I think very much the latter.

Re: Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

#95

Post by NateDad » Tue, Feb 12, 2013, 2:19 PM UTC

lee wrote: post #37

flexie wrote: post #7

People laugh when they hear a "sexist" joke because it's funny. Maybe gender related jokes don't have a place at conferences and work places - I am not sure - but there should be room for jokes about genders somewhere, right? I mean, where does this political correctness stop?

I don't think they do. A sexist joke is about as professional to make in a conference as a racist or religious joke. Just don't do it. I agree that most humour will offend someone. Try watching a stand-up act that doesn't offend someone's race, gender, sexual orientation, age, or any other demographic information. Some of those discriminatory jokes can be really funny; after all we're human. There's a time and place…

This. Your presentation to colleagues is not the same as Chris Rock's standup. Keep jokes generic... yes, that means they're often less funny

Re: Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

#96

Post by coldtea » Tue, Feb 12, 2013, 2:19 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #59

DanBC wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe gender related jokes don't have a place at conferences and work places > I mean, where does this political correctness stop It seems really obvious to me. At work, at a conference, you don't tell racist, sexist, ableist etc jokes. What you do outside work is up to you. (But, if you do it outside work and in public it may complicate things if you have a work related discrimination problem.) > political correct…

> "Political correctness" is often a buzzword used to dismiss people who want to discuss this. Other, better, words exist. "Politeness" is one. "Freedom of expression" is another, though.

"I'm sorry you feel that the rules of basic human decency are trampling on your first amendment rights."

I don't have first amendment rights, as I'm not American. And the cliches and Prudishness of one specific society do not universal "basic human decency" constitute.

Or, as Bernard Shaw put it: "Pardon him, Theodotus. He is a barbarian, and thinks that the customs of his tribe and island are the laws of nature."

Re: Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

#97

Post by hartator » Tue, Feb 12, 2013, 2:19 PM UTC

3 weeks ago, they were a girl JS hackathon where we work. They spend more time doing ballons, decorations and girly stuff, than actually code. We were making jokes about that! (ie: going to ask them to do some sewing for us instead of that!) I do not feel guilty or sorry to have make fun of these girls.

The best way to knock down racism/sexism/discrimination is to make achievements that great that change people mind. Ayn Rand or Marie Curie are great examples. Moreover, fighting against the expression of discrimination is unproductive, you can make them shut up but they won't never think less.

Re: Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

#98

Post by hackerkira » Tue, Feb 12, 2013, 2:19 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #59

DanBC wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe gender related jokes don't have a place at conferences and work places > I mean, where does this political correctness stop It seems really obvious to me. At work, at a conference, you don't tell racist, sexist, ableist etc jokes. What you do outside work is up to you. (But, if you do it outside work and in public it may complicate things if you have a work related discrimination problem.) > political correct…

> "Political correctness" is often a buzzword used to dismiss people who want to discuss this. Other, better, words exist. "Politeness" is one. "Freedom of expression" is another, though.

I never understood why "political correctness" has to be political. Almost all of the words that aren't PC, are must more entrenched in the social, societal sphere than in politics. If a politician says something non-PC, they get in much more trouble than a lay person. A person who is an expert at being PC...will probably succeed as a politician, tip-toeing strategic thinker...

Re: Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

#99

Post by Claudus » Tue, Feb 12, 2013, 2:19 PM UTC

Reading this post, I probably had the typical 'guy' reaction, which was negative towards the post. Why? Because I've been in situations like the ones described, and I wasn't offended and I feel like I'm being attacked for being in these situations that are outside of my control, and don't bother me personally, and that makes me defensive.

I'm not going to disagree that what she's describing is probably sexist, I'm also not going to disagree that she's right when she says this type of thing gets attention.

But I am going to disagree that people think "sexism is entertainment". These types of things are done for the "sex" or "shock" value, not for the "sexism".

What does that mean?

1) Feel free to fight sexism, but stop trying to end it, it will never happen. Instead, punish it.

2) Stop blaming everyone who happens to be in proximity, it's not my fault, I'm not offended, and honestly I don't care that you are (maybe I'm a jerk, but I'm also not a sexist). Instead, call out the specific offenders, I might actually take your side I didn't feel like I was targeted.

Re: Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

#100

Post by impendia » Tue, Feb 12, 2013, 2:20 PM UTC

VMG wrote: post #32

rmc wrote: post #4

For those who think it doesn't matter, and that there is no sexism and that women aren't be discriminated against due to the pure fact of their gender, be aware that there have been double blinded scientific studies that show that if you change the name of a CV/resume to a female name when applying for science jobs, they don't get as much/as good offers. If this was question about whether a new drug worked or not, th…

Isn't that a separate issue? I doubt that the speakers intend to put down women, they just lacked the insight that their comedic material makes some people feel uncomfortable.

It's not a separate issue.

In my understanding, the point of the article is that it proves that sexism is much more prevalent, serious, and harmful than I am able to discern as a white male. Reading things like this make it much easier to emphasize with women (and men) who get upset over sexist humor.

Also, sexism is not about intent, most of it isn't deliberate, and much of it is committed accidentally by people such as myself, despite my best intentions to generally do otherwise.