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DHS Watchdog OKs ‘Suspicionless’ Seizure of Electronic Devices Along Border

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Re: DHS Watchdog OKs ‘Suspicionless’ Seizure of Electronic Devices Along Border

#91

Post by Bud »

pmorici wrote: post #24
drivebyacct2 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Obama was worlds different from Romney, and that comparing Obama to Bush was lunacy Amazingly there is a middle ground. Yes, Obama is taking after Bush in scary ways. It makes me sick and it's why I voted third party in the re-election. That having been said, it's terribly reductionist to say that "Romney and Obama are the same" and anyone who is a woman or gay will almost surely agree with me. >I have to wonder wha…

"anyone who is a woman or gay will almost surely agree with me." Only because politicians pander to their perceived voting blocks. Is there any evidence, out side of statements made during the campaign, that Romney actually holds views towards gays and women that are substantially different than Obama's?

You seem unclear on the point. It doesn't really matter that much what Romney's own views are. It matters that he's a Republican, and would appoint right-wing judges and a right-wing cabinet and would sign Republican legislation.

These judges and legislation would, of course, be substantially different from those resulting from an Obama Administration.

Re: DHS Watchdog OKs ‘Suspicionless’ Seizure of Electronic Devices Along Border

#92

Post by tptacek »

jorgem wrote: post #85
malandrew wrote: post #83

Does the 100 miles apply to ocean borders too? If so, that puts entire cities like NYC, SF, LA, etc. right within this exclusion zone.

Yep: http://www.aclu.org/constitution-free-zone-map

It is worth knowing that this map is intended to illustrate the absurdity of a specific (old) statement from DHS. It is almost definitely not the case that living in NYC puts you at risk of arbitrary border searches; among other things, SCOTUS has specifically said it doesn't.

Re: DHS Watchdog OKs ‘Suspicionless’ Seizure of Electronic Devices Along Border

#93

Post by tedunangst »

angersock wrote: post #88
sneak wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes, when faced with a terrible set of game theory circumstances, the only winning move is not to play.

A wonderful quip, but what is its explanatory power here? What is it here "not to play"? I'm as much Fuck the Man as the next person, but let's try to dig a bit deeper.

Obviously, you're supposed to not vote for anyone, then go online and tell everybody about how you're fighting the system.

Re: DHS Watchdog OKs ‘Suspicionless’ Seizure of Electronic Devices Along Border

#94

Post by InclinedPlane »

tptacek wrote: post #53
lhnn wrote: post #45

>“We also conclude that imposing a requirement that officers have reasonable suspicion in order to conduct a border search of an electronic device would be operationally harmful without concomitant civil rights/civil liberties benefits,” Well frankly, in that case, I don't give a shit what you conclude, because you're mentally incompetent. "We also conclude that following the Constitution for Americans reentering the…

The Constitution does not forbid the government from conducting searches without warrants at the border. The word "reasonable" is in the 4th Amendment in order to defer judgement about what searches are and aren't constitutional to the the courts. Unfortunately for your argument, SCOTUS has for many many decades held that border searches are, subject to some limitations, reasonable.

Here "the border" is a 100 mile wide buffer zone near the border. This is just ridiculous.

Re: DHS Watchdog OKs ‘Suspicionless’ Seizure of Electronic Devices Along Border

#95

Post by refurb »

Bud wrote: post #91
pmorici wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"anyone who is a woman or gay will almost surely agree with me." Only because politicians pander to their perceived voting blocks. Is there any evidence, out side of statements made during the campaign, that Romney actually holds views towards gays and women that are substantially different than Obama's?

You seem unclear on the point. It doesn't really matter that much what Romney's own views are. It matters that he's a Republican, and would appoint right-wing judges and a right-wing cabinet and would sign Republican legislation. These judges and legislation would, of course, be substantially different from those resulting from an Obama Administration.

I would urge you to look a lot deeper than putting people, judges and legislation in Republican=bad and Democrat=good buckets.

Re: DHS Watchdog OKs ‘Suspicionless’ Seizure of Electronic Devices Along Border

#96

Post by martinced »

mhurron wrote: post #13
betterunix wrote: post #4

So, remember a few months ago, when people like me were saying that the third parties are the only hope in America's democracy? Then a bunch of people said that Obama was worlds different from Romney, and that comparing Obama to Bush was lunacy. I have to wonder what happens when those Obama supporters with left-wing sentiments read an article like this.

If D and R are interchangeable what makes you think a third party would be any different?

I'm not american but Ron Paul had his own libertarian party back in the days and he was "R" only because he had to chose a camp.

Ron Paul made it pretty clear during nearly its entire life that he was for less state and more individual liberties.

That makes me think that things would have been way different should he have been elected president.

Re: DHS Watchdog OKs ‘Suspicionless’ Seizure of Electronic Devices Along Border

#97

Post by tptacek »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #94
tptacek wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Constitution does not forbid the government from conducting searches without warrants at the border. The word "reasonable" is in the 4th Amendment in order to defer judgement about what searches are and aren't constitutional to the the courts. Unfortunately for your argument, SCOTUS has for many many decades held that border searches are, subject to some limitations, reasonable.

Here "the border" is a 100 mile wide buffer zone near the border. This is just ridiculous.

Again: that is something crazy the DHS said, and it's something SCOTUS has refuted. The idea of a 100 mile border search zone is obviously absurd.

Re: DHS Watchdog OKs ‘Suspicionless’ Seizure of Electronic Devices Along Border

#98

Post by anigbrowl »

betterunix wrote: post #4

So, remember a few months ago, when people like me were saying that the third parties are the only hope in America's democracy? Then a bunch of people said that Obama was worlds different from Romney, and that comparing Obama to Bush was lunacy. I have to wonder what happens when those Obama supporters with left-wing sentiments read an article like this.

Nothing in my case, because I was already aware of the fact that customs inspections are not subject to the 4th amendment and never have been. Random border inspections are a fact of life because borders create incentives for smuggling. Changing this is close to the bottom of my priority list.

Re: DHS Watchdog OKs ‘Suspicionless’ Seizure of Electronic Devices Along Border

#99

Post by anigbrowl »

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #15
betterunix wrote: post #4

So, remember a few months ago, when people like me were saying that the third parties are the only hope in America's democracy? Then a bunch of people said that Obama was worlds different from Romney, and that comparing Obama to Bush was lunacy. I have to wonder what happens when those Obama supporters with left-wing sentiments read an article like this.

>Obama was worlds different from Romney, and that comparing Obama to Bush was lunacy Amazingly there is a middle ground. Yes, Obama is taking after Bush in scary ways. It makes me sick and it's why I voted third party in the re-election. That having been said, it's terribly reductionist to say that "Romney and Obama are the same" and anyone who is a woman or gay will almost surely agree with me. >I have to wonder wha…

Re. Gary Johnson, this makes depressing but necessary reading: https://www.nsfwcorp.com/dispatch/gary-johnson-swindle

Re: DHS Watchdog OKs ‘Suspicionless’ Seizure of Electronic Devices Along Border

#100

Post by martinced »

tptacek wrote: post #82
_b8r0 wrote: post #79

It's things like this that mean that I won't go back to America. I love Americans, and there's a great deal of the US I'd love to see but it's just not going to happen while stuff like this goes on.

My most vivid experience of traveling in Europe in 2000 was of having my bags searched on a train midway between Zurich to Prague. Not as a condition of getting on the train, but 30 minutes out from the last station we'd stopped at. Not on any individualized suspicion, but as one of several passengers to receive the same treatment. Not in order to protect the safety of passengers, but (evidently) as part of a drug in…

"You can certainly be searched without a warrant all throughout Europe."

Never happened to me but I do believe you. However what did happen though is that a vehicle of mine equipped with a GPS got stolen in Europe and despite me telling the cops exactly behind which garage door the vehicle was located, they refused to open the garage without a warrant. Now so many days have passed by that it's likely that the thieves have moved the vehicle and that I'll never see it again.

"Police and thieves, in the street... Fighting the nation with their guns and ammunition"

I cannot say that I admire your 100% belief in the state that you've displayed in this thread.

But you're probably right: Europe sucks and the U.S. is the greatest place to live ever and certainly nothing is going wrong in the U.S. right now (zeppelin over Washington DC, en masse murdering using drones, illegal detention, justified torture, etc.).

I've got a bridge decorated with pink unicorn running in fairyland to sell you.

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