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Petition: Stop bundling crapware with Java

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Re: Petition: Stop bundling crapware with Java

#91

Post by Karunamon »

sc0rb wrote: post #83
VexXtreme wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love to see that. Java really deserves to die a death at this point.

Here we go again, another Java hater for no reason. What should we replace it with? someCrap.js? someOtherCrap.py? You really have no idea what you're talking about. Killing Java would be a ridiculous thing to do. You live in such a bubble.

No reason?

I'd say their ham-handed approach to security and their contentment to sit with their thumbs up their arses, while vulnerabilities whose magnitude compare favorably with the US national debt are being exploited widely is more than enough reason to hate Java.

At least Microsoft has the good sense to issue OOB patches when something serious enough comes up!

The current state of Java means that running the browser plugin paints a huge bullseye on your back. It got bad enough that the freaking department of homeland security recently issued a warning to disable the plugin for your own good.

Re: Petition: Stop bundling crapware with Java

#92

Post by Karunamon »

brudgers wrote: post #46

This petition is complaining about the neighbor on your left letting his dog crap in your yard, when the neighbor on the right is running a meth lab. We are carrying around phones filled with spyware to track what we listen to, watch and read an where we do it. How hard is it to discern even our sleep habits? We put them on the charger beside the bed at night and tune in to Pandora. If our phones can't tell if we're…

>We are carrying around phones filled with spyware to track what we listen to, watch and read an where we do it.

That's some great FUD. In fact I think I've heard it somewhere before..

Isn't this the reason that RMS refuses to carry a phone?

Re: Petition: Stop bundling crapware with Java

#93

Post by Karunamon »

yankcrime wrote: post #11
josephagoss wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oracle don't care about happy people, and a lack of happy people dealing with Oracle has not stopped their massive profits so why would they start now? I think this is extra worse than normal bundling, because its a friggin platform! A basis for applications, it smells as bad as Microsoft asking to install a toolbar during the OS install.

By bundling advert-ridden applications with their latest OS, Microsoft aren't really all that far off the mark from your comment.

The "advert-ridden" applications are without exception, storefronts.

You enter an app who's purpose is to allow you to purchase videos or music, and then complain that there are ads there?

Re: Petition: Stop bundling crapware with Java

#95

Post by Karunamon »

ihsw wrote: post #65
magoon wrote: post #63

1) Ask Toolbar is about as mild a bundle-in as it gets. 2) You can set Java update mode to manual. 3) Chrome (and possibly another browser) asks permission before using Java on any page, so I consider it a low-risk vector for drive-bys.

1 and 2 are opt-out while 3 is opt-in, they should all be opt-in.

Absolutely disagree on #2. The application should not have to ask for permission to update, especially given the security climate that Java lives in.

If you have to ask the average user for permission to update, updates won't get done. It's that simple.

Oracle should take a page from Chrome's book, here. Update silently in the background, and then notify if a restart or a relaunch is required to effect the change.

Re: Petition: Stop bundling crapware with Java

#96

Post by jarsj »

willvarfar wrote: post #25
Surio wrote: post #5

[Somewhat relevant, somewhat off-topic] Commission collections and ethics aside, I actually cannot understand the venom towards Ask (its search results). I believe in keeping web searches open with multiple choices made available to users, so I actively support all viable alternatives (meaning I use Ask, Blekko, ddg, lycos, yahoo (bing) among others instead of Google for regular everyday searches). Ask search results…

Ask gets money by tricking you to click on not-quite-relevent ads, whereas Google gets money by providing revelent ads, no tricking involved. You can't really split Ask in half and talk about the quality of its search results vs the ethics of the company.

http://www.searchenginejournal.com/askcom-google-sign-35-bil...

Re: Petition: Stop bundling crapware with Java

#97

Post by zalzane »

natem345 wrote: post #74
andyjohnson0 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

.net is free and doesn't come bundled with toolbars and crapware

It's supposed to sell Windows licenses.

I don't think it's fair to say that .net is very effective in selling windows licences when mono can run CLR programs on more platforms than java can.

Re: Petition: Stop bundling crapware with Java

#98

Post by stevvooe »

sc0rb wrote: post #83
VexXtreme wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love to see that. Java really deserves to die a death at this point.

Here we go again, another Java hater for no reason. What should we replace it with? someCrap.js? someOtherCrap.py? You really have no idea what you're talking about. Killing Java would be a ridiculous thing to do. You live in such a bubble.

Please: it's some_other_crap.py.

Re: Petition: Stop bundling crapware with Java

#99

Post by brudgers »

7952 wrote: post #81
brudgers wrote: post #46

This petition is complaining about the neighbor on your left letting his dog crap in your yard, when the neighbor on the right is running a meth lab. We are carrying around phones filled with spyware to track what we listen to, watch and read an where we do it. How hard is it to discern even our sleep habits? We put them on the charger beside the bed at night and tune in to Pandora. If our phones can't tell if we're…

In a world in which computers chips are ubiquitous and connected it is almost impossible to avoid this kind of risk. We implicitly trust numerous companies who could have left back doors in a system. I trust Android more than the random ASIC in my phone or the proprietary software in my router.

I am typing this on my smartphone. Obviously I accept some risk as well. I suspect we would agree that our acceptance doesn't make it less of a risk. I don't think that my acceptance such risks makes the petition any less of a trivial distraction from the broader and more serious issue.

Oracle is not the poster child for spyware.

Re: Petition: Stop bundling crapware with Java

#100

Post by unoti »

VexXtreme wrote: post #89
sc0rb wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here we go again, another Java hater for no reason. What should we replace it with? someCrap.js? someOtherCrap.py? You really have no idea what you're talking about. Killing Java would be a ridiculous thing to do. You live in such a bubble.

I work with Java every day. Java and Spring pay my bills at the moment but that doesn't lessen my contempt for the platform. Overly amateurish nature of the community/ecosystem is a huge issue when you are building enterprise level applications (but have no choice really, because it is your company's technology of choice - usually because they are too cheap to pay for decent dev tools). The whole community is full of…

You said some insightful and interesting things there, but two things in particular are most striking: 1) You have no choice. 2) You don't know about new technologies. I sense a potential roadmap for you here! Start learning, build something to show people you've learned, and start looking. Whenever you feel trapped, you're becoming obsolete. Don't be a victim, be a conqueror.
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