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Neil DeGrasse Tyson’s Eight Books Everyone Should Read

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Re: Neil DeGrasse Tyson’s Eight Books Everyone Should Read

#91

Post by cma »

gyardley wrote: post #90
cma wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are going to read it take note of the various mistranslations it makes. 'Hell' isn't actually a concept in the old testament, but the KJV engages in Whig History and uses it throughout. Even the first words of the Bible "In the beginning" are a mistranslation (though that mistranslation occurred thousands of years before the KJV and was a result of written Hebrew omitting vowels or something).

Sure, the first verse of my translated study Torah is 'When God was about to create heaven and earth...' This corrected interpretation's not particularly new, either - it's based on a commentary from an 11th century rabbi. However, like it or not, all of the KJV's mistranslations are much more influential than the original - and most influential of all is its phrasing and choice of vocabulary. I suppose what you focu…

I agree; I just think it is important when considering why e.g. Jewish people aren't leaping to accept Jesus--the hellfire that say, Baptists, claim he is going to save them from, isn't part of their beliefs. Many Christians are confused on this.

Re: Neil DeGrasse Tyson’s Eight Books Everyone Should Read

#93

Post by jlgreco »

phaus wrote: post #37
barry-cotter wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Iliad is both entertaining and well written, while Plato is intellectually stimulating where he's not just wrong. The Bible is not remotely as well written as the Iliad, nor is it comparable as a work of philosophy to Plato.

I'm in the middle of a philosophy 101 class. I had been meaning to read the works of Plato, but until now I was busy learning other stuff. I have to say that surprisingly, I have lost all respect for Plato after reading Crito (It's Plato's take on what Socrates' reasons for not escaping his execution.) It contains the most illogical, oversimplified, flat-out erroneous thought processes I've ever encountered. If Crito…

You may be interested in Diogenes the Cynic, a contemporary of Plato. He hated Plato, he accused him of entirely misunderstanding Socrates and regularly interrupted Plato's lectures to ridicule him.

Re: Neil DeGrasse Tyson’s Eight Books Everyone Should Read

#94

Post by jlgreco »

pretoriusB wrote: post #78
barry-cotter wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Iliad is both entertaining and well written, while Plato is intellectually stimulating where he's not just wrong. The Bible is not remotely as well written as the Iliad, nor is it comparable as a work of philosophy to Plato.

> The Bible is not remotely as well written as the Iliad, nor is it comparable as a work of philosophy to Plato. Tens of Thousands of top notch literary critics, philosophers and intellectuals beg to differ...

Considering the bible is not even a cohesive work with a single style, language, or even writer, it really never stood a chance of standing next to the Illiad as a work of literature. It's importance, besides the obvious importance of a particular translation itself, is solely historic, cultural.

Re: Neil DeGrasse Tyson’s Eight Books Everyone Should Read

#95

Post by gruseom »

jlgreco wrote: post #94
pretoriusB wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Bible is not remotely as well written as the Iliad, nor is it comparable as a work of philosophy to Plato. Tens of Thousands of top notch literary critics, philosophers and intellectuals beg to differ...

Considering the bible is not even a cohesive work with a single style, language, or even writer , it really never stood a chance of standing next to the Illiad as a work of literature. It's importance, besides the obvious importance of a particular translation itself, is solely historic, cultural.

This is so tendentious a thing to say as to just be weird. Do Northrop Frye, Harold Bloom, M. H. Abrams, and pretty much every other scholar who has written about it, not know what literature is?

Re: Neil DeGrasse Tyson’s Eight Books Everyone Should Read

#96

Post by jlgreco »

gruseom wrote: post #95
jlgreco wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering the bible is not even a cohesive work with a single style, language, or even writer , it really never stood a chance of standing next to the Illiad as a work of literature. It's importance, besides the obvious importance of a particular translation itself, is solely historic, cultural.

This is so tendentious a thing to say as to just be weird. Do Northrop Frye, Harold Bloom, M. H. Abrams, and pretty much every other scholar who has written about it, not know what literature is?

If they think it stands on it's own literary merits, then they are deluded. The Iliad is far more sophisticated.

If we want to talk about importance then that is another story, but merely on the quality of writing there is hardly a comparison between the two.

"The Bible" is a curated though disorganized collection of confused and contradictory prose and poetry, many of which were evolved rather than written, filled with massive sections of irrelevant tedium (Have you read Numbers? I mean honestly...). Together it only forms a cohesive work with logic-defying "interpretation".

The King James translation has literary importance for it's influence on the English language, and the collection in general obviously has immense historic importance, but other than that? Yeah... no.

On the other-hand the Iliad is a masterpiece of epic poetry and a fine example of writing by all standards. No excuses need to be made for it, and that really is the most telling thing to realize.

Re: Neil DeGrasse Tyson’s Eight Books Everyone Should Read

#97

Post by gruseom »

jlgreco wrote: post #96
gruseom wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so tendentious a thing to say as to just be weird. Do Northrop Frye, Harold Bloom, M. H. Abrams, and pretty much every other scholar who has written about it, not know what literature is?

If they think it stands on it's own literary merits, then they are deluded. The Iliad is far more sophisticated. If we want to talk about importance then that is another story, but merely on the quality of writing there is hardly a comparison between the two. "The Bible" is a curated though disorganized collection of confused and contradictory prose and poetry, many of which were evolved rather than written, filled w…

Thanks for expanding. But doesn't this boil down to hair-splitting over the definition of "literature"? Does folklore count as literature? Many scholars would say yes, and have given it serious literary study, yet it doesn't even exist as a canonical text.

Re: Neil DeGrasse Tyson’s Eight Books Everyone Should Read

#98

Post by jlgreco »

gruseom wrote: post #97
jlgreco wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they think it stands on it's own literary merits, then they are deluded. The Iliad is far more sophisticated. If we want to talk about importance then that is another story, but merely on the quality of writing there is hardly a comparison between the two. "The Bible" is a curated though disorganized collection of confused and contradictory prose and poetry, many of which were evolved rather than written, filled w…

Thanks for expanding. But doesn't this boil down to hair-splitting over the definition of "literature"? Does folklore count as literature? Many scholars would say yes, and have given it serious literary study, yet it doesn't even exist as a canonical text.

I think you have misunderstood. I am not accusing it of not being literature. I'm just saying it is low quality literature.

Re: Neil DeGrasse Tyson’s Eight Books Everyone Should Read

#99

Post by derrida »

gyardley wrote: post #66
derrida wrote: post #12

I've read some of those books cover to cover (Art of War, the Prince) & other's I've glazed over because they were, well, boring & laborious & I don't believe anybody should be recommending them as things to read for enjoyment (Origin of the Species or The Bible, for instance). So here's my list of 8 for things that you'll probably never finish, but extract huge value from anyway. -Richard Feynman Lectures on Physics…

I wouldn't recommend the King James Version of the Bible for its religious content, not being a Christian and all, but it's essential for understanding half the allusions of English literature. If you haven't, try it. The 1769 Authorized Version (what you'll surely get if you just buy a KJV Bible) is very readable, the language is beautiful (and, in my opinion, enjoyable) and you'll appreciate your books much more.

Sure, I will give it a go! I had the Good News bible around when I was a child and haven't revisited it for a few years.

Re: Neil DeGrasse Tyson’s Eight Books Everyone Should Read

#100

Post by derrida »

fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #58
derrida wrote: post #12

I've read some of those books cover to cover (Art of War, the Prince) & other's I've glazed over because they were, well, boring & laborious & I don't believe anybody should be recommending them as things to read for enjoyment (Origin of the Species or The Bible, for instance). So here's my list of 8 for things that you'll probably never finish, but extract huge value from anyway. -Richard Feynman Lectures on Physics…

The Bible, boring? I mean, it drones on with boring passages sometimes, but the stories are far from boring. I'd say terrifying, sickening, tragic at times. I'll bump your Feynman Lectures (watch the videos), and add everything else (his books). Even laypersons can understand him. Feynman wrote some lectures on computation too which has some gems in it. http://books.google.com/books/about/Feynman_Lectures_On_Comp...…

Hey, It's a week later, I think I will give the KJV bible a try again sometime. Have you gotten onto The Varieties of Religious Experience yet? Do you think I was warranted to recommend it to the audience I did?
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