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What it's Really Like Working with Steve Jobs

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Re: What it's Really Like Working with Steve Jobs

#91
post #3

"I think it was October or November of 1998" .. "The idea of "personal digital media" was born." .. "Before then, very vew people had any personal photos, or music, or home movies on their computers." Wasn't this the same time digital cameras and relevant sized mass storage at affordable prices started to become common place?

WinAmp came out before this too. Pretty sure it had lots of users. I think in general this side of the story is a bit overblown .. at the time (1998/99) iMac and Mac in general was a small player globally.

Re: What it's Really Like Working with Steve Jobs

#92

So what's it actually like working with Steve Jobs? Half joking aside, it would have been nice if the author would have spent more than 1/5th of the article actually talking about what he claimed he was going to give insight on. Instead the author spent most of the article tooting his own horn, which is fine, if that's what the title had indicated to expect.

Exactly what I thought. Disappointed.

You don't know Glenn. He's a natural story teller and while proud of what he's done, he recognizes that he's just one of many people trying to create something that hasn't been created before. In reading into his comments of his history with Steve, you're viewing him as intentionally pumping up his own story. The truth is he's trying very hard to be honest with the listener as to his comings and goings with Apple and with Steve.

He worked with him closely, then stepped away and came back. Multiple times. By telling the story of this, he lets readers know that he wasn't always by his side and that he left to try other things but circled back at different junctures in his life and in Steve's.

Knowing Glenn and his successes and failures and talking with him over many a margarita at Compadres (after long bouts of writing NeXTSTEP code with him), the story brought strong memories and a very clear voice of different periods and circumstances across several years. He shows an arc of ups and downs in both careers and a lot of hard work and sweat that often didn't get notice until many years later if at all.

Rereading the story, I don't get boastful at all. I get much appreciation for being able to be on a pretty cool ride and being able to create some great products. There's also disappointment in some hard work that didn't pay off. But above all appreciation for someone who continually rolled up his sleeves to get in the ring, take chances, and build something... or in this case tell a damn good story.

Re: What it's Really Like Working with Steve Jobs

#93
post #79

Not to sound harsh but reading that was a complete waste of time. In the end it came down to this: Q: What is it really like working with Steve Jobs? A: It wasn't magic, it was hard work, thoughtful design, and constant iteration. No way, really? Come on, I'm sure everyone on HN knows that this is true for any product.

Everyone knows but it's nice to be reminded sometimes that Apple's level of polish is not the work of gods, and that it can be attained by hard work. The media likes to portray Apple as a magical force and deify's Jobs as the grand Wizard, it nice to see he's just a guy behind the curtains.

Re: What it's Really Like Working with Steve Jobs

#94
post #71

Reading this reminded me of a post by Miguel de Icaza: http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2012/Nov-07.html Basically, Miguel argues that Walter Isaacson failed, as did many who tried to describe Steve Jobs recently: >Whenever the story gets close to an interesting historical event, or starts exploring a big unknown of Steve's work, we are condescendingly told that "Steve Activated the Reality Distortion Field". >Every.…

After reading his biography by Walter Isaacson. I lost all respect I had for Steve Jobs. At the end of the book it felt like he rode on the successes of other geniuses like Steve Wozniak, Jonathan Ive and many others. His biggest advantage seems to have be, that he was with Steve Wozniak when Apple 1 and 2 were made. After that it was riding on others success and building cult of personality around him. Walter Isaacs…

This linked article is one of the first things that has made me think of Steve in a positive light.

I'm generally fairly negative about him because 1. I have a natural aversion to cults of personality and all that goes with them and 2. the Apple vision of the world is about consumer products. I think this is exactly the wrong direction for all of society (producer products are the future), and I worry that if they ever 'won' or even came as close to winning as Microsoft did for a while that there would be no place for me in such a world. No plausible endgame for Apple is good for me (although they've done a lot of good in breaking the stranglehold of windows and making the concept of other OS more mainstream).

There's a little bit of 3. too, which is that most of what I've read of him makes him come across as a bit of a nightmare as a person.

Anyway, this article felt very real, and just talked about a guy with passion who left the CEO hat at the door. That would be a guy I could potentially respect.

Re: What it's Really Like Working with Steve Jobs

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that he was with Steve Wozniak when Apple 1 and 2 > were made This sound like Apple was happening at some garage and Jobs and Wozniak were just walking by. Did the same happen with NeXT and Pixar? Jobs was responsible for Apple happening, and he was also responsible for Wozniak being at Apple. You may not like the guy, but denying that he had a visions is silly. Videos available online show that he envisioned what…

To be fair, he looked at what was happening in research and thought "I can make this happen in the market" – all the ingredients were there in PARC, etc. That he was able to fixate on that goal and make it happen, however, is a triumph.

I don't think that's quite it. It wasn't simply about taking it to market, it's seeing research that you know needs to be in a product because you want to use it right now.

I get that feeling a lot from research, concepts, and so on. I end up building the products I want to use, and it turns out that's a really good way to build something people like.

The way you word it makes it sound like it's all about selling things to other people — where I really believe that Steve Jobs under Apple and NeXT was designing the computers, devices and software that he personally wanted to exist. Selling them was a way to continue to fund that process.

Re: What it's Really Like Working with Steve Jobs

#96
post #3

"I think it was October or November of 1998" .. "The idea of "personal digital media" was born." .. "Before then, very vew people had any personal photos, or music, or home movies on their computers." Wasn't this the same time digital cameras and relevant sized mass storage at affordable prices started to become common place?

I'm pretty sure that at that time I had tons of music (using winamp) and photos on my computer (scanning was the way at that time).

People on Hacker News might've, but the general public had a far slower uptake on it.

Re: What it's Really Like Working with Steve Jobs

#97
post #78

Reading this reminded me of a post by Miguel de Icaza: http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2012/Nov-07.html Basically, Miguel argues that Walter Isaacson failed, as did many who tried to describe Steve Jobs recently: >Whenever the story gets close to an interesting historical event, or starts exploring a big unknown of Steve's work, we are condescendingly told that "Steve Activated the Reality Distortion Field". >Every.…

Isaacson made several telling errors about Apple products, showing he didn't really know them--for example, he seems not to understand how NeXT technology is still the core of OS X and iOS. This is not a trivial detail, since if Jobs was all about products you're not going to understand his work if you don't understand the products. So, Isaacson fails as a book that will help you understand Job's work, or his managem…

You're spot on about Apple relying on NeXT technologies in OS X / iOS renaissance. I too was surprised this wasn't really mentioned in the book.

Re: What it's Really Like Working with Steve Jobs

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He didn't ignore it, he wasted that year on alternative medicine voodoo. This detail may not have made it to the Isaacson book, I didn't read it.

It did make it into the book--Jobs mostly spent that year eating differently, but it wasn't a major focus of his life and aside from the change in diet he did more or less ignore it. If he obsessed over it as much as he actually obsessed over things at times, perhaps things would have gone differently. But it's clear that he did not.

It appears the book glossed over what actually happened. Jobs worked with a number of alternative medicine con artists, to no result, obviously. Obsessing doesn't work when the methodology is wrong, and alternative medicine is the wrong methodology for treating serious medical problems.

Re: What it's Really Like Working with Steve Jobs

#99
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After reading his biography by Walter Isaacson. I lost all respect I had for Steve Jobs. At the end of the book it felt like he rode on the successes of other geniuses like Steve Wozniak, Jonathan Ive and many others. His biggest advantage seems to have be, that he was with Steve Wozniak when Apple 1 and 2 were made. After that it was riding on others success and building cult of personality around him. Walter Isaacs…

> that he was with Steve Wozniak when Apple 1 and 2 > were made This sound like Apple was happening at some garage and Jobs and Wozniak were just walking by. Did the same happen with NeXT and Pixar? Jobs was responsible for Apple happening, and he was also responsible for Wozniak being at Apple. You may not like the guy, but denying that he had a visions is silly. Videos available online show that he envisioned what…

Catmull and Lasseter are the main geniuses behind Pixar. Jobs came in later and provided a lot of money to keep the dream alive (which shouldn't be underestimated) and apparently did some amazing negotiation with Disney but the initial spark of genius came from those two (and many other talented people they worked with).
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