The Real High-Tech Immigrant Problem: They’re Leaving • Hacker News Board

Re: The Real High-Tech Immigrant Problem: They’re Leaving

#91

Post by tjmc » Tue, Mar 03, 2009, 1:44 AM UTC

anamax wrote: post #84

sho wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Not to defend the US Immigration service, but those samples aren't comparable - one is orders of magnitude larger and less reliable." Not to defend the climate of fear generated by media scare stories, but it's more complex than that - the problem isn't that every once in a while someone screws up; the problem is that it can happen at all and they're not screw-ups, it's policy. Everyone knows someone with a story ab…

> Everyone knows someone with a story about some horrible entry into the US. Everyone knows someone who has a friend who knew the guy who tried to dry his poodle in the microwave. I'm not saying that Immigration and/or Homeland Security is great, but the rumor-mongering is unjustified. > the problem is that it can happen at all and they're not screw-ups, it's policy. And you know this because.... > I am an Australian…

> I don't know how things are in Australia, but we can't identify criminals and the like without actually checking.

Interesting viewpoint. Would you have a problem with having your photograph and fingerprints taken whenever you boarded a domestic flight? I'm sure they'd catch plenty of criminals that way too.

Re: The Real High-Tech Immigrant Problem: They’re Leaving

#92

Post by andreyf » Tue, Mar 03, 2009, 1:52 AM UTC

dmpayton wrote: post #48

earl wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Says the dude named yummyfajitas -- that's a great username. But seriously, that was my favorite bit of that movie: Pippin: But what about breakfast? Aragorn: You've already had it. Pippin: We've had one, yes. But what about second breakfast? [Aragorn stares at him, then walks off.] Merry: Don't think he knows about second breakfast, Pip. Pippin: What about elevensies? Luncheon? Afternoon tea? Dinner? Supper? He know…

But seriously, that was my favorite bit of that movie: Please read the books, they're far superior to the movies. Edit: Downvotes, hmmm. Allow me to explain... The LotR movie trilogy, while being excellent movies in and of themselves, do not do the books justice. PJ's interpretation (and subsequent plot hacking) left me wanting more, and not in a good way. Admittedly, that may have more to do with the medium in which…

I'd love to hear your opinion on immigration and the intra-national tech community, but LotR is way off topic.

Re: The Real High-Tech Immigrant Problem: They’re Leaving

#93

Post by wallflower » Tue, Mar 03, 2009, 1:54 AM UTC

fortes wrote: post #16

garply wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're seeking tech employees, Beijing is probably the easiest place to find them. It's China's tech hub - the best universities are there. Google and MS, for example, locate their headquarters right next to Tsinghua University (China's MIT). It's not expensive compared to Shanghai, but it is more expensive than some of the lesser known big cities like Chongqing or Wuhan. The pollution is bad in Beijing. That's th…

At least back in 2006, Beijing was more polluted than most other Chinese cities (a notable exception be Lanzhou, which is ridiculous). This is in part due to the huge population, but also due to the geography (there are mountains nearby that trap a lot of pollutants, like LA -- and the Gobi desert is close enough to blow a lot of stuff in as well). I lived pretty well there on about $700 / month (going out and with a…

"The best way to understand Beijing's size is to visualize what Manhattan might be like without the Hudson and East Rivers. Beijing just keeps going. Manhattan is almost 23 square miles. Beijing is more than 150!... Given the size, you can probably imagine the traffic. It's like Los Angeles without interstates, at rush hour, in the rain. It's impossible to get anywhere quickly. I was warned before my trip that traffic would be worse than anything I'd ever seen, and it was. One evening, it took our crew nearly two hours to go about eight miles... Had the Olympics been held last August, the air quality in Beijing would have been in violation of the World Health Organization standard every single day..."

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/news/story?id=3453777

Re: The Real High-Tech Immigrant Problem: They’re Leaving

#94

Post by alecco » Tue, Mar 03, 2009, 2:08 AM UTC

alecco wrote: post #89

kirubakaran wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How easy it is to live there without knowing Spanish? What are the safer parts of the country? Also can you please estimate the monthly expenses?

About Language. Part of the population speaks basic English so getting around at first is not that hard. This is more so in business and of course tourism. We are a country of immigrants, so people are very friendly and welcoming to foreigners. Your basic Spanish can ramp up in a couple of months if you take basic lessons. If you are really on a shoestring you can always place an ad offering "my English for your Cast…

Forgot to say, there is already a boom of Westerners coming here to visit or settle in the last few years. There are hostels everywhere for u$d 12/day and most have free wifi, speak English, and have double rooms around u$d 40/day (usually with private bathroom and shower.)

HI network: http://www.hostels.org.ar/?l=en

Re: The Real High-Tech Immigrant Problem: They’re Leaving

#95

Post by chiffonade » Tue, Mar 03, 2009, 2:41 AM UTC

kirubakaran wrote: post #70

alecco wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here, but back in Argentina after many years in Europe. * ZERO visa problems, we welcome immigrants from hunger or financial disasters, since 1890 :) * Pretty women who like foreigners (never underestimate this!) * Great nightlife (or this.) * Projected economic growth (recession instead of depression.) * After '01 default, the country works on zero credit already (no surprises.) * But infrastructure and culture…

How easy it is to live there without knowing Spanish? What are the safer parts of the country? Also can you please estimate the monthly expenses?

> How easy it is to live there without knowing Spanish

Impossible, because if you move somewhere foreign, you're going to learn the language unconsciously within 6 months. People who have only lived in the US don't know this. It almost takes no effort. The human brain is good at this sort of thing.

Re: The Real High-Tech Immigrant Problem: They’re Leaving

#96

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Mar 03, 2009, 4:04 AM UTC

kirubakaran wrote: post #70

alecco wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here, but back in Argentina after many years in Europe. * ZERO visa problems, we welcome immigrants from hunger or financial disasters, since 1890 :) * Pretty women who like foreigners (never underestimate this!) * Great nightlife (or this.) * Projected economic growth (recession instead of depression.) * After '01 default, the country works on zero credit already (no surprises.) * But infrastructure and culture…

How easy it is to live there without knowing Spanish? What are the safer parts of the country? Also can you please estimate the monthly expenses?

[deleted]

Re: The Real High-Tech Immigrant Problem: They’re Leaving

#97

Post by poutine » Tue, Mar 03, 2009, 4:38 AM UTC

rms wrote: post #37

nebula wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be just my personal prejudice but I'm a little scared of China; mainly because of the fact that its own citizens don't enjoy freedom of expression, God knows what might happen to a foreign national. What's your experience? Are my fears unfounded?

You can say just about anything as long as you never question the ultimate ruling authority of the Communist Party of China. As long as you aren't going around encouraging subversion, you're fine. And the internet police won't care that you are VPN'ing your traffic, they only care about locals and those that are actively spreading subversion. So yes, it is a situation of "as long as you aren't doing anything wrong yo…

This is indeed true. There's nothing to fear in China, unless you're a total idiot. You're probably safer here than in the US.

Re: The Real High-Tech Immigrant Problem: They’re Leaving

#98

Post by poutine » Tue, Mar 03, 2009, 4:44 AM UTC

jasonkester wrote: post #66

garply wrote: post #10

I'm a US citizen in the SF bay area, bootstrapping a web company by myself, and I'm heading out to Beijing this summer. PG talks a lot about reaching 'ramen profitability' and there's no easier place to hit that than China. It's going to cost me about $400 a month to live (frugally), and if I needed to, I could teach English for about $60 / hr. Worst case scenario, a native English speaker could dedicate one or two d…

Out of curiosity, have you spent much time in China? More important, do you speak Chinese? I've spent a lot of time in Southeast Asia, but only a couple months in China. One thing that struck me there was that it's one of the few places where you really can't get by in English alone. I mean sure, you can feed yourself and find places to sleep, but it's really tough to get to know the people because pretty much nobody…

In China without some Chinese the basics such as transportation, food and shelter are a real pain. If you're going to spend any great amount of time in China you must learn Chinese, especially if you live outside of Shanghai and Beijing.

Re: The Real High-Tech Immigrant Problem: They’re Leaving

#99

Post by poutine » Tue, Mar 03, 2009, 4:57 AM UTC

ced wrote: post #12

garply wrote: post #10

I'm a US citizen in the SF bay area, bootstrapping a web company by myself, and I'm heading out to Beijing this summer. PG talks a lot about reaching 'ramen profitability' and there's no easier place to hit that than China. It's going to cost me about $400 a month to live (frugally), and if I needed to, I could teach English for about $60 / hr. Worst case scenario, a native English speaker could dedicate one or two d…

Is there any reason why Beijing is better than other large Chinese cities? I heard it was expensive and polluted. As for teaching English, do you have first-hand experience backing the (very high) 60$/hr figure? And what kind of visa will you get?

Beijing is not just polluted, it's absurdly polluted. Think taking on a pack a day habit and that's nearly the long term impact on your health. Not good.

$60/hr seems quite optimistic to me. I have never taught english but the teachers in China I know typically make between $1-$2k USD per month depending on where they are and their experience.

Also, teaching english here is something that most introverted geeks couldn't handle. You'd often be called to teach quite young children. Think standing up and leading a class of kids in silly songs and dancing and you get the picture. I've been in classrooms visiting friends while they do this and I could never do their job.

Additionally what you need to keep in mind about China is that as a foreigner you're going to pay more than the locals just because you're a rich foreigner. How much more is going to depend on you, but you do prepare a premium.

Doing basic things in China takes a lot of time, for instance paying your rent at the bank could take you 2hrs. Sometimes you'll try to do a routine thing and you'll just fail. That's China, people have a lot of spare time and they don't optimize for a fast moving convenience lifestyle like in the US.

Re: The Real High-Tech Immigrant Problem: They’re Leaving

#100

Post by fgimenez » Tue, Mar 03, 2009, 5:06 AM UTC

alecco wrote: post #52

garply wrote: post #10

I'm a US citizen in the SF bay area, bootstrapping a web company by myself, and I'm heading out to Beijing this summer. PG talks a lot about reaching 'ramen profitability' and there's no easier place to hit that than China. It's going to cost me about $400 a month to live (frugally), and if I needed to, I could teach English for about $60 / hr. Worst case scenario, a native English speaker could dedicate one or two d…

Same here, but back in Argentina after many years in Europe. * ZERO visa problems, we welcome immigrants from hunger or financial disasters, since 1890 :) * Pretty women who like foreigners (never underestimate this!) * Great nightlife (or this.) * Projected economic growth (recession instead of depression.) * After '01 default, the country works on zero credit already (no surprises.) * But infrastructure and culture…

You forgot empanadas :)