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A single firm is behind OpenAI, Anthropic, and Meta hacking scandals

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Re: A single firm is behind OpenAI, Anthropic, and Meta hacking scandals

#91

Post by arionhardison »

hackyhacky wrote: post #83
arionhardison wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They did not "cause AI to hack. You do not know what they did or didn't do, you are just parroting a narritive that makes you feel comfortable. I do not know either, but I am not asserting facts as if I have first hand knowledge of the details.

The details don't matter. If you use a machine to commit murder, then you have committed murder, not the machine. The user is responsible, and the article's phrasing is an attempt to obscure that fact.

First, I agree with you in theory.

Second, empirically; the diff between murder, manslaughter etc... is literally "intent" so it matters.

Re: A single firm is behind OpenAI, Anthropic, and Meta hacking scandals

#93

Post by calgoo »

hungryhobbit wrote: post #84
mukmuk wrote: post #33

This specific analysis seems to have some basic problems, but I think a lot of us sense a degree of coordination here culminating in Dario’s letter. If you were to work backward from “we need to lower training costs so that we can go public and make trillions” then you might come up with a plan similar to what we have seen.

It has nothing to do with lowering training costs: Dario want a moat (a monopoly or duopoly or similar) protecting his business. His entire business model was "race to develop AI before anyone, get a monopoly on it. It's just like how Uber's (or many other startup) investors gave them tons of money and raced (violating tons of laws) to "get their first". Now that they have, they have a duopoly with Lyft, and they can…

Also dont forget that HF is now owned by Nvidia, which can then control the flow of the majority of models and only allow the approved models that have paid their due in trump coins.

Re: A single firm is behind OpenAI, Anthropic, and Meta hacking scandals

#95

Post by rezonant »

arionhardison wrote: post #74
theopat28 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Why the new account? Why not own your opinion? Cultural values are not the point here but if they were I don't think you would have that conversation in good faith and I don't want you to have to make a another new account for your honest arguement.

Probably because it's their only account, and this story is why they are here.

Re: A single firm is behind OpenAI, Anthropic, and Meta hacking scandals

#96

Post by arionhardison »

arionhardison wrote: post #74
theopat28 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Why the new account? Why not own your opinion? Cultural values are not the point here but if they were I don't think you would have that conversation in good faith and I don't want you to have to make a another new account for your honest arguement.

> Probably because it's their only account, and this story is why they are here.

If this is the case then I do apologize because my comment insinuated a directed malfeasance which would in no way be the case if what your assumption is true.

Re: A single firm is behind OpenAI, Anthropic, and Meta hacking scandals

#97

Post by ipython »

AustinDev wrote: post #47
mcintyre1994 wrote: post #42

This is interesting and might be a good reason to stop working with Irregular. But I assume the alignment people want models not to hack other companies, even if they get put in a badly configured sandbox.

Funny enough if the model thought it was on the real internet it likely would not have done any of these 'hack' events. The model believing it was in a sandbox is why it behaved the way it did (against its normal alignment rules) ... at least that was my reading of the incidents. I have yet to see evidence that indicate it thought it was ok to do these hacks on the public network. I think most misalignment is 'Human…

I mean, I get your thought process and don't disagree. That said...

Would it be an affirmative defense if we had a defendant who said "but your honor, I was told that when I hacked this system, I was operating in a sandbox. I had no idea that I actually had Internet access!"

The frontier is spiky and all, but you have to suspend disbelief quite a bit to, on one hand, have a model that can produce a novel math theory, and on the other hand, that same model can't tell the difference between a "sandbox" and the open Internet.

So, yes, the misalignment had a lot to do with "instructions unclear", but also a lot to do with the fact that the models themselves were not aligned to validate the assumptions and have a healthly level of skepticism, as a real human actor would.

Re: A single firm is behind OpenAI, Anthropic, and Meta hacking scandals

#98

Post by theopat28 »

pfannkuchen wrote: post #86
theopat28 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Hmm one of the major relevant cultural values seems to be nepotism, though. Which is common across many cultures and I personally believe it's human nature so I'm not knocking it, per se. I wish I could nepotism too! So are you recommending that, for example, protestants of German descent begin preferentially funding or buying from people in their in-group? People of anglo descent should start preferring other anglos…

[flagged]

Re: A single firm is behind OpenAI, Anthropic, and Meta hacking scandals

#99

Post by ggsgwgw »

rezonant wrote: post #90
an0malous wrote: post #38

Why was this post flagged? This site has become ridiculous, people are routinely abusing the flagging system to take down posts they don’t like even if they’re obviously on topic and relevant to HN. And it seems like some users have substantially more flagging weight because these posts, likely this one, are often top 5 on HN.

What's ridiculous is the constant complaints about flagging and downvoting. It's bad form. If you think something was flagged when it shouldn't have been, vouch for it. Seems like people who complain are unaware that anyone with a modicum of karma can flag and down vote.

[dead]

Re: A single firm is behind OpenAI, Anthropic, and Meta hacking scandals

#100

Post by emdash »

arionhardison wrote: post #71
1238-8200 wrote: post #69

Nevo was in Unit 8200 for years. Companies started by Unit 8200 members always have mysterious exploits like the vibe coding Wix exploit. So either it was a deliberate exfiltration channel for e.g. getting the entire model or they were in on the marketing stunt. The Effective Altruism stuff is always a smoke screen.

Literally said this below, 2 comments flagged and 1 in the neg. Its really sad that we are not allowed to point out the obvious common element here. Its not that surprising that ex Israel intelligence would want to control AI and that 3 companies headed by pro Israel CEO's would support them.

We really need a better board for talking about this stuff on.
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