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University of Michigan Drops First-Semester Grades To'Curb Mental Health Crisis'

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Re: University of Michigan Drops First-Semester Grades To'Curb Mental Health Crisis'

#91

Post by estearum »

raddan wrote: post #88
estearum wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All universities are for the elites. I would love for that not to be the case, but the only reason admissions are this competitive is because there's competition for limited slots. And yes, certainly a (traditional) university education should not be required for having good career opportunities. IMO there's a need for a type of education that's vastly more scalable and still equips people with the beyond-secondary e…

I’m not sure where you get the idea that all universities are competitive because that is simply untrue. Many public universities are required by state legislatures to broadly admit students from their own state. California is a good example. You can see incoming class statistics here: https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/entering-class-... Competitive universities are competitive. Sometimes that competiton i…

The ones that aren't competitive don't have the ultra-competitive dynamics described above. Not sure what your point is.

That still doesn't mean they're not "for the elites." Universities are for people striving for upward mobility, i.e. to get into or maintain membership in the elite tiers of society. Also there is (obviously) significant variation in the upper end of the elite and the lower end.

Re: University of Michigan Drops First-Semester Grades To'Curb Mental Health Crisis'

#92

Post by consensus1 »

hackyhacky wrote: post #41
consensus1 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we really want the upper echelons of society to be made up of neurotic workaholics? Do we really want universities to be gate keepers here at all?

No, we don't, but the alternatives are worse. Universities at least apply some meritocratic standards. If we bypass universities, there will be some other gatekeeper, it will be worse: mostly an "old boys network" and corrupt, pay-to-play advancement.

Seems like the country was more competently governed before the current university system, though. If its job is to gate keep incompetence out of leadership it is failing spectacularly.

Re: University of Michigan Drops First-Semester Grades To'Curb Mental Health Crisis'

#93

Post by al_borland »

GlibMonkeyDeath wrote: post #49

This has the knock-on effect that it becomes impossible to excel in your first semester. Both of my kids worked hard and were prepared for college, and they did very well their first years, as they were used to the pace and level of information. It's something they are proud of, and it gave them confidence in their future lives. By eliminating the chance to excel, we make life worse for students who should be standin…

I struggled my freshman year. In high school, I never had to study or do much of anything outside of class. College was a huge adjustment. My high school also had an experimental math program that didn’t help anything. I’m a decent test taker, so I placed into classes my high school did not prepare me for.

My GPA being low, but not failing, gave me the wake up call I needed to make the needed adjustments. A “Pass” wouldn’t have given me that wake up call, and a “Fail” may have just bounced me out, not giving me the chance to right the ship.

Re: University of Michigan Drops First-Semester Grades To'Curb Mental Health Crisis'

#94

Post by estearum »

consensus1 wrote: post #92
hackyhacky wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, we don't, but the alternatives are worse. Universities at least apply some meritocratic standards. If we bypass universities, there will be some other gatekeeper, it will be worse: mostly an "old boys network" and corrupt, pay-to-play advancement.

Seems like the country was more competently governed before the current university system, though. If its job is to gate keep incompetence out of leadership it is failing spectacularly.

When you consider the complexification of any single industry over the last 50 to 100 years, then multiply that by every single other industry, then multiply that by the newly complex interactions between industries, then consider that the government must keep some degree of handle on all of that complexity, and consider that they must do it with a smaller headcount per capita (even before Trump) than ever before, against better-funded and more sophisticated "adversaries" (people/orgs trying to evade government management) than ever before ...

It seems very possible to me that the managers of said system are far better than ever before and still fail to produce spectacular results.

Re: University of Michigan Drops First-Semester Grades To'Curb Mental Health Crisis'

#95

Post by hackyhacky »

consensus1 wrote: post #92
hackyhacky wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, we don't, but the alternatives are worse. Universities at least apply some meritocratic standards. If we bypass universities, there will be some other gatekeeper, it will be worse: mostly an "old boys network" and corrupt, pay-to-play advancement.

Seems like the country was more competently governed before the current university system, though. If its job is to gate keep incompetence out of leadership it is failing spectacularly.

> before the current university system,

When was that? Harvard was founded in 1636.

Re: University of Michigan Drops First-Semester Grades To'Curb Mental Health Crisis'

#96

Post by b0rtb0rt »

joezydeco wrote: post #15

When you force high school kids to work days that are significantly longer than a normal adult to achieve a good GPA and get into a good college, you can expect that they are going to throttle back once they're away from home with way more free time than is normal. From my kid's experience: she was up at 6:30am, in AP classes by 7:30am (three more to go during the day). Classes were done by 3:00, then sports practice…

your kid could also not do any of those things and still go to college(or not) and have a happy fulfilling life

Re: University of Michigan Drops First-Semester Grades To'Curb Mental Health Crisis'

#97

Post by b0rtb0rt »

techjamie wrote: post #55
bradfa wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are normal adults not "working" in a similar way to your kid for 15+ hours per weekday? Comparable adult parent things would be up at 6am, prep kids for school day, in the office by 8am, 8 hours of work plus a lunch, departing the office around 5pm, transporting kids to/from some activities, dinner, helping kids with homework, somehow fit in regular shopping needs (food, essentials, etc), maybe some volunteering or h…

That's also assuming you have children. I'm childfree and most days are all mine once I punch out unless I've got stuff to triage here and there.

he meant actual adults with responsibilities
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