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Mark Zuckerberg attacks 'closed' AI rivals as Meta returns to open models

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Re: Mark Zuckerberg attacks 'closed' AI rivals as Meta returns to open models

#91

Post by soraminazuki »

GetMeSoon wrote: post #80
lukan wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This is enough to absolve them of almost any sin. If I were a utilitarian, I'd unironically be a Zuckerberg fan right now." Well, if it were the only thing he is doing now, but FB is still controlling peoples social life with who knows what kind of intentions they train their algorithms for. But I can and do still welcome this move here.

> FB is still controlling peoples social life with who knows what kind of intentions they train their algorithms for. As opposed to literally any social network out there, right?

What do you mean, "as opposed to"? Yes, there are other scumbag billionaires weaponizing their social media platforms to ruin society. No, that doesn't make Mark Zuckerberg a better person.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg attacks 'closed' AI rivals as Meta returns to open models

#92

Post by j45 »

ViktorRay wrote: post #20

Comments here are surprising to me. I get folks don’t like Zuckerberg and his company and don’t trust his intentions… I don’t either. But this is an unquestionably good thing right?. The more open source software out there the better. And the more open weights or even over source AI stuff the better too right? More competition the better generally speaking I think. Unless I’m missing something and am getting this who…

Can one good thing balance out anything else people might see?

Meta releasing Llama was truly a differentiator, but I'd argue that the Gemma models might have surpassed them now.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg attacks 'closed' AI rivals as Meta returns to open models

#93

Post by j45 »

ViktorRay wrote: post #20

Comments here are surprising to me. I get folks don’t like Zuckerberg and his company and don’t trust his intentions… I don’t either. But this is an unquestionably good thing right?. The more open source software out there the better. And the more open weights or even over source AI stuff the better too right? More competition the better generally speaking I think. Unless I’m missing something and am getting this who…

Can one good thing balance out anything else people might see?

Meta releasing Llama was truly a differentiator, but I'd argue that the Gemma models might have surpassed them now.

Maybe Meta, Google, and others can start to compete on open models instead of just closed.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg attacks 'closed' AI rivals as Meta returns to open models

#94

Post by gaigalas »

lenerdenator wrote: post #65
gaigalas wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Psalm 135:15-18 is my favorite version of it, the most clear-headed. It reads more as a warning "if you do this, then this will happen" than an unreasonable commandment. The idols of the nations are silver and gold, made by human hands. They have mouths, but cannot speak, eyes, but cannot see. They have ears, but cannot hear, nor is there breath in their mouths. Those who make them will be like them, and so will all…

Obviously, this old thinker never had to think about creating value for shareholders or disrupting markets or changing the future.

My mistake, I disregarded shareholders. One must always think of them when recalling ancient wisdom.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg attacks 'closed' AI rivals as Meta returns to open models

#95

Post by soraminazuki »

basch wrote: post #79
RunSet wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"They 'trust me'. Dumb fucks." \- Mark Zuckerberg[0] [0] https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2010/09/20/the-face-of-fa...

It was an insightful comment at the time he made it. His point wasn’t that he couldn’t be trusted, it was that he could be anyone and people had zero awareness or concern for their privacy. It was eye opening to him how little people outside tech circles cared about security, and he was both flippant and accurate.

No. That was him mocking his users in private, knowing he was exploiting kids who had no clue what they were getting into.

> the following exchange is between a 19-year-old Mark Zuckerberg and a friend shortly after Mark launched The Facebook in his dorm room:

> Zuck: Yeah so if you ever need info about anyone at Harvard

> Zuck: Just ask.

> Zuck: I have over 4,000 emails, pictures, addresses, SNS

> [Redacted Friend's Name]: What? How'd you manage that one?

> Zuck: People just submitted it.

> Zuck: I don't know why.

> Zuck: They "trust me"

> Zuck: Dumb fucks.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2010/09/20/the-face-of-fa...

Do you really see this as him sharing insight? I call bullshit.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg attacks 'closed' AI rivals as Meta returns to open models

#96

Post by tancop »

dbspin wrote: post #70
ViktorRay wrote: post #20

Comments here are surprising to me. I get folks don’t like Zuckerberg and his company and don’t trust his intentions… I don’t either. But this is an unquestionably good thing right?. The more open source software out there the better. And the more open weights or even over source AI stuff the better too right? More competition the better generally speaking I think. Unless I’m missing something and am getting this who…

I'd like to question that premise. Open models are great for research, privacy, cost, customisation and a host of other things... But they're also going to be the engine that breaks the world. I'm already surprised that we haven't seen Llama / Qwen + Whisper automated spear phishing at scale. It's literally just a matter of time. Given the incredible progress in image and video generation, it's been clear for a coupl…

> A world where business and communication is conducted primarily online cannot coexist with low cost, widely distributed, undetectable identity theft.

what if we dont use centralized identity at all?

web of trust failed in the 90s because exchanging keys is hard when all you have is desktop computers, wired connections and old school hackers who dont care about ux. today you could set up a system where the whole process is tap two phones together with nfc and confirm, everything gets auto downloaded and shared with your whole network.

now this doesnt work directly for a random online business where none of your contact personally know anyone, but governments can act as an authority that cross signs their citizens keys. that means if you want to stop bots from creating accounts all you have to do is make new users show a certificate from one of the authorities you trust.

its cheap to verify, decentralized and not hard to integrate with existing PKI. the biggest technical problem is key management as always, but that can be solved with something like ethereum style social recovery setups or a did:plc type multi key scheme.

that gives you a robust identity scheme. browsers and social media can integrate it to show a trust rating for content based on who signed it. messaging apps can show a warning or refuse calls from unknown users. fraud is only possible against a person who somehow has no irl contacts, never used a government service in their life and trusts random strangers online. at that point they deserve it.

the one massive, unpredictable question is if anybody is willing to go ahead and adopt it on a scale big enough to create network effects. it would take a state level force and carefully designed OS integrations so its more convenient than email/password signup.

but even if all of this fails i still think a world of scams is better than a world controlled by a couple big countries (America, China, maybe EU) or for-profit corporations. open source ai might lead to anarchy but closed ai will definitely get us to tyranny. i dont know about you but i would take the first option.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg attacks 'closed' AI rivals as Meta returns to open models

#97

Post by HDThoreaun »

forestrywat wrote: post #5

Is this "I'm losing so I think we should change the rules"? Because it seems like that.

It makes strategic sense for Meta to want ai in general to be open. Their own product strategy focuses on utilizing the ai to make their customers consume more ads, not selling the raw intelligence. When you look at it from that frame it’s clear that metas goal is to make it so that have free access to the best ai, not that the market size of selling intelligence grows.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg attacks 'closed' AI rivals as Meta returns to open models

#98

Post by charleslmunger »

tancop wrote: post #96
dbspin wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to question that premise. Open models are great for research, privacy, cost, customisation and a host of other things... But they're also going to be the engine that breaks the world. I'm already surprised that we haven't seen Llama / Qwen + Whisper automated spear phishing at scale. It's literally just a matter of time. Given the incredible progress in image and video generation, it's been clear for a coupl…

> A world where business and communication is conducted primarily online cannot coexist with low cost, widely distributed, undetectable identity theft. what if we dont use centralized identity at all? web of trust failed in the 90s because exchanging keys is hard when all you have is desktop computers, wired connections and old school hackers who dont care about ux. today you could set up a system where the whole pro…

>today you could set up a system where the whole process is tap two phones together with nfc and confirm

This was actually possible in 2011 or so, and a friend and I implemented it for a school project. How well the ux works depends on whether you want to use a key exchange protocol for the in person communication.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg attacks 'closed' AI rivals as Meta returns to open models

#100

Post by VCFundedGenYer »

scotty79 wrote: post #46
sodapopcan wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar to Altman saying "we should slow down."

OpenAI is not losing though. Fable is barely available and barely cooperates. Sonnet 5 is obnoxious model that's terrible to work with. GPT-5.6-sol competently gets stuff done. Just be careful not to ask it for impossible stuff because you might not like the lengths it's gonna go to get them done regardless.

OpenAI is losing historic amounts of money. They are constantly at risk of bankruptcy or going far under.

No AI company is winning.

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