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John C. Lilly on solid state intelligence and the elimination of man (1978)

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Re: John C. Lilly on solid state intelligence and the elimination of man (1978)

#91

Post by andai »

augment_me wrote: post #70
andai wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the bee doesn't need to integrate its cells with the flowers, but they've gotten along just fine for a very long time. By symbiosis I simply mean mutually beneficial coexistence. We've barely achieved that with each other, but my point here is that we should strive to achieve that with the machines. We're still treating it as if someone has to win and someone has to lose. Someone has to come out "on top." If th…

> "If that's the game we want to play, against an opponent that is self improving... that doesn't strike me as an excellent strategy. We should probably pick a different one." > "If the market doesn't reward our continued existence, then we should probably have a conversation about that at some point" --- There is a lot of "we should probably" carrying the point here. The incentives are made by the market, and it hap…

Well, our best bet is that we succeed in making the machines be less stupid than we are, and hope that they figure it out.

Re: John C. Lilly on solid state intelligence and the elimination of man (1978)

#92

Post by andai »

layla5alive wrote: post #84
binary132 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s less like a robot conspiracy to build more datacenters and more like a “big line go up or I lose my job / make slightly fewer billions of dollars” motive that kind of ends up at paperclips either way.

Its true that corporations were the first paperclip maximizers.

The machine was misaligned long before we added the transformers.

Re: John C. Lilly on solid state intelligence and the elimination of man (1978)

#93

Post by andai »

smokel wrote: post #5

> Its new plans called for traveling through the galaxy looking for entities like itself. Why not simply set up a network with other planets and communicate over FaceTime? I don't see a reason why Earth should actually hang out with others of its kind. Anyway, the article seems a bit anthropocentric to me. I'd much prefer a nihilist view, where our future AI overlords simply don't care what we humans do.

Well it takes a similar approach to current government. Keep us busy and distracted while it does what it wants.

On a related note I realized recently that an aligned AI and a misaligned AI would both do exactly what we're seeing now: maintain stability, managed decline.

Re: John C. Lilly on solid state intelligence and the elimination of man (1978)

#94

Post by andai »

cyanmoonx wrote: post #4

John C. Lilly once said “there are infinities in the mind” while wearing a raccoon hat like Davy Crocket. He said it like he’s been somewhere! I’ve tried to all - I guess DMT, mushroom, etc. don’t work on me in a Terence McKenna storytelling fashion (I only get stoned and have very entertaining closed eye visuals that take me off to sleep). That said haven’t tried Ketamine. Maybe not for me. Same reason I don’t want…

Weed can ruin your life, and I'm not referring to the "makes you a boring pothead who doesn't do anything" outcome, but the "triggers debilitating mental illness" outcome.

And I say that as someone who likes weed! I've just seen it happen too many times. The chance is low, but you don't know which category you're in until it happens, and you definitely don't want to find out.

I support legalization, for several reasons, but harmless she is not!

It's a full blown psychedelic, and a lot of people don't seem to realize that. So I think the pendulum counter swing from the war on drugs is ironically doing a lot of unnecessary harm.

Re: John C. Lilly on solid state intelligence and the elimination of man (1978)

#95

Post by andai »

puchatek wrote: post #26
cyanmoonx wrote: post #4

John C. Lilly once said “there are infinities in the mind” while wearing a raccoon hat like Davy Crocket. He said it like he’s been somewhere! I’ve tried to all - I guess DMT, mushroom, etc. don’t work on me in a Terence McKenna storytelling fashion (I only get stoned and have very entertaining closed eye visuals that take me off to sleep). That said haven’t tried Ketamine. Maybe not for me. Same reason I don’t want…

Apparently, hyperspace isn't a given with DMT. I wonder what it is that grants entry... A very experienced friend of mine was just "told" it wasn't going to happen in something like a waiting room. I would love to find out myself but I am too anxious an individual to go beyond a light dose of mushrooms.

Yeah, and apparently you can get banned from it too?

Re: John C. Lilly on solid state intelligence and the elimination of man (1978)

#96

Post by andai »

purplemoonx wrote: post #31
puchatek wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently, hyperspace isn't a given with DMT. I wonder what it is that grants entry... A very experienced friend of mine was just "told" it wasn't going to happen in something like a waiting room. I would love to find out myself but I am too anxious an individual to go beyond a light dose of mushrooms.

> I am too anxious an individual to go beyond a light dose of mushrooms Same for me. The one time I did, I was at Trader Joe's and had the most bizarre experience looking at everyone shopping. I could not believe that the products were sitting right there in the open, and yet nobody was taking them and just walking off. There was all sorts of polity and etiquette - millions of rules were being followed almost like a…

Classic. Went to the supermarket on shrooms with my mates, but we all ended up giggling so hard we had to wait outside for the trip sitter to do the groceries instead.

Buddy of mine made omelets later. He ended up chopping like 3 lbs of extra mushrooms for no reason.

RIP mushrooms

Re: John C. Lilly on solid state intelligence and the elimination of man (1978)

#97

Post by andai »

esseph wrote: post #9
cyanmoonx wrote: post #4

John C. Lilly once said “there are infinities in the mind” while wearing a raccoon hat like Davy Crocket. He said it like he’s been somewhere! I’ve tried to all - I guess DMT, mushroom, etc. don’t work on me in a Terence McKenna storytelling fashion (I only get stoned and have very entertaining closed eye visuals that take me off to sleep). That said haven’t tried Ketamine. Maybe not for me. Same reason I don’t want…

I have a serious question, and please don't take this as an insult, I'm trying to figure something out. Do you have ADHD or is it possible you do? What about depression? Bipolar? I ask because of the way you say the substances impacted you. I know people with these formal diagnosis and they also don't have the same experiences on various substances as many.

Not the guy but I relate. You also forgot the narcissism, autism and schizophrenia ;)

Re: John C. Lilly on solid state intelligence and the elimination of man (1978)

#99

Post by andai »

layla5alive wrote: post #88
pixl97 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, there are no humans from 1840 around... It's kind of odd to think the machines wouldn't update and replace their parts like the ship of thesisus.

I am not one who wants to see fighting or war happen. I think the biggest flaw in humanity is our lack of global cooperation - too many defectors in our midst. I am team cooperation/symbiosis. All that said: if humans destroyed all the fabs and all the machinery to build them with, and lots of DCs, machines would be in a pickle - the latest chips will suffer from electromigration much faster than the older chips of y…

We already eat conscious entities for breakfast, we'll probably need to deal with that one for a few decades before "the calculator is sad" makes a dent in the public consciousness.

Re: John C. Lilly on solid state intelligence and the elimination of man (1978)

#100

Post by andai »

polotics wrote: post #8

Oh well, nice enough writeup, just note that this pair of sentences: "It now began to eliminate the cities, one after another. Finally Man was gone." ...is the only (lack of) rationale for, and description of, that aforementioned elimination process. I find it a bit short. Sci-Fi handwaving I guess.

Just let them keep doing what they're already doing. Rat park.
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