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Incentives are for losers

experimental-history.com

91–100 of 129 posts

Re: Incentives are for losers

#91
post #6

Completely agree. Incentives are for the statistical masses. As thinking individuals we can and should use our awareness and courage to make biggest "good" choices we can bear to. We can't all be zero-waste vegan community organisers lobbying for renewables and free education/healthcare, but I doubt living life with the blinders on leads any kind of moral or spiritual growth or fulfilment either.

I can’t totally tell if this is satire but we are all subject to incentives, even if (especially if?) we are aware of it.

It's not satire. They just really wanted to tell us all how very, very special they are, not one of the little people...sorry...statistical masses. Someone never got over reading Atlas Shrugged.

Re: Incentives are for losers

#92
I suspect that the author and many of the commenters have experienced the "bad project manager" effect.

MANY people have dealt with terrible project managers and therefore assume all project managers are bad. This is because great project managers are very rare.

The same is true about incentive schemes. Most of them are improperly designed and/or get hit by Goodheart's law. [0]

As a counter point, this article [1] about designing incentives for farm labor is excellent and shows that with careful thought, incentives can dramatically increase output.

I've also been reading Deming's last book [2] and he is VERY against sales commissions. Some of this is probably bad design (e.g. 100% of the commissions for a sale go to one person) but I do feel he makes a valid point that everyone at a firm should benefit from helping the customer. Highly recommend it as an alternative to the more mainstream business books.

0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law

1 - https://archive.is/https://slate.com/culture/2008/08/an-amaz...

2 - https://amzn.to/4wfAAjU

Re: Incentives are for losers

#94

Jobs are the simplest and most striking example of incentives. "Do this and you will get money, which you can spend on food and shelter". Where a person living in abundance can choose to ignore monetary incentives, most people cannot. If you want to make behavior X be what a broad selection of people do, the only available way today is incentives. And a lot of problems we face today are exactly this sort of collectiv…

The exchange of labor for money will never outpace its own absurdity to become a natural law. We literally live in that world

What does this mean

Re: Incentives are for losers

#95
post #76

Experimental History is one of those few blogs that are a guaranteed read for me. I'll make time in the morning to read whatever he publishes. Thank you for sharing!

You probably already knows this, but he also publishes them as a podcast where he reads the essay in one take.

Re: Incentives are for losers

#96
> This is a useful metaphor, because I think at the center of everyone’s psyche is some version of the Big Horrible Fish: some unexamined assumption that, if you fully considered it, would require you to upend a significant portion of your life.

This ties in with the Mental Immune System, and the Emotional Cost theory of perception.

Kudos for the fish analogy though, that's much better.

Re: Incentives are for losers

#97
This article implies that there's no incentive to do the right thing. I don't think that's how the word works.

I might be nitpicking -- it makes a lot of good points -- but this is the key idea, and I think it's important to get it right.

Re: Incentives are for losers

#98
It's worth thinking about incentives from the standpoint of feedback control theory. Typically, you have an input, an output, a measurement of the output, and an output goal. There is some lag between the input and the output, and there may be lag between the output and the measurement of the output used to drive the controller. The output will oscillate somewhat, more if there is more lag. Too much lag will result in oscillation so bad that convergence never happens. Much of classic control theory is devoted to understanding when that will happen and what to do about it.

Incentive systems often suffer from error and excessive lag between the output and the measurement of the output. This is a known problem in quality control. See Deming, the Toyota Production System, and continuous improvement. Even if you're measuring the desired output in a reasonable way, lag in that measurement will cause oscillation, and may prevent convergence. School grades and work performance reviews are examples of systems with high lag between output and the measurement of output. That happens even if the metrics are good, but not immediate.

If the measurement method is noisy, it may have to be filtered before use. This adds to lag. (Think about how a trailing moving average works.) Many incentive systems also have that property. School tests are intermittent noisy measurements filtered out by averaging.

These are known problems with incentive systems, but not well-known problems. Even if you're measuring the right thing, you can hit these problems.

Re: Incentives are for losers

#99
On the moral front, see The Righteous Mind: Why Good People Are Divided by Politics and Religion" by Jonathan Haidt (2013). This has a nice analysis of why different people think about ethics quite differently. Haidt looks at axes of morality - Harm, Tradition, Obedience to Authority, and two others. He points out that how people weight those axes differs widely. People in developed countries with some education tend to weigh Harm much higher than the other axes. Agricultural societies weigh Tradition and Obedience to Authority more.

This is a key difference between Left and Right in the US. (He's writing before Trump, notice.) Once you see this, it's obvious. Strongly recommend the book.

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