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Os8088: A powerful Mac-like OS for the IBM XT, 286, 386

os8088.com

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Re: Os8088: A powerful Mac-like OS for the IBM XT, 286, 386

#91

Post by blks »

jggonz wrote: post #60
Narishma wrote: post #7

> Hand-written real-mode 8086. No C, no linker, no runtime library. More like hand-prompted...

"Author" of os8088 here. You're right, it's hand-prompted. Claude's Opus and Fable have done a really great job helping me and another contributor shape this operating system. It's been a really interesting way to learn about the different techniques that other operating systems have used to get the performance we saw in LisaOS, MacOS, Windows, GEOS, etc... performance at 640x480 on an XT class machine is tricky! Als…

One thing is where you learn through llm and then apply this knowledge, write asm the way humans do, another is letting Claude generate everything.

Re: Os8088: A powerful Mac-like OS for the IBM XT, 286, 386

#92

Post by blks »

jggonz wrote: post #85
gedy wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would probably had been fine had you just not put the "hand written" part.

Yes, agree. I laughed at that when I first saw it last week. I went ahead and cleared all that up on the homepage and the README now.

You haven’t even wrote readme yourself?

Re: Os8088: A powerful Mac-like OS for the IBM XT, 286, 386

#93

Post by blks »

afavour wrote: post #76
LeoPanthera wrote: post #12

It's funny how virtually everyone on HN is using AI to write code and simultaneously dismisses all interesting new software as written by AI.

For me personally there’s something deeply unsatisfying about hobby projects that are entirely AI generated. Work code is something different. I don’t have passion for a lot of that, it’s just the way I earn money. This is never going to be a commercially viable project. It’s a wonderful idea for a hobbyist passion project. But if you’re not actually coding it yourself it feels far less interesting. I can’t really ma…

It’s also a dead on arrival project that won’t exist for long, and will not be maintained and expanded by the author.

Re: Os8088: A powerful Mac-like OS for the IBM XT, 286, 386

#94

Post by blks »

walrus01 wrote: post #48
LeoPanthera wrote: post #12

It's funny how virtually everyone on HN is using AI to write code and simultaneously dismisses all interesting new software as written by AI.

There's a difference between using AI to automate some drudge work of stuff that would just be mentally tedious to do (writing an operating system for an 8088 in assembly? Tedious, unless you're one of the rare people whose mind does well with that sort of thing), and just not even being bothered to write your own readme files and project description. At least take the time to hand write a description of what it is a…

I think writing asm can be pretty straightforward and fun, with experience, strict developing principles and lots of macros.

Re: Os8088: A powerful Mac-like OS for the IBM XT, 286, 386

#95

Post by prmoustache »

jggonz wrote: post #59
adrianmonk wrote: post #34

> The graphical operating system that could have been for the IBM XT Visi On[1] was a graphical operating system for the IBM PC that actually existed as a commercial product, though definitely not a very successful one. It was made by VisiCorp, the same company that created VisiCalc (the first spreadsheet for a personal computer). It was demoed at COMDEX in 1982, before the Apple Lisa was released. It came out after…

Author of the AI written os8088 OS here... Thanks for sharing the promotional video for Visi On. It's cool to see how many different companies gave this a shot back in the 80s.

From what I understand, the AI is the author, not you.

You are the customer.

Re: Os8088: A powerful Mac-like OS for the IBM XT, 286, 386

#96

Post by prmoustache »

jggonz wrote: post #61
incanus77 wrote: post #51

This looked great, I started reading things, and then I just kept reading and reading the voluminous description details, and it was an immediate indication to me that the whole thing was built up by Claude. Confirmed in the repo. I closed the tab. I appreciate the topic, interest, and ambition, but if a human couldn’t be bothered to create and document it, I can’t be bothered to spend my time reading about it.

"Author" of os8088 here. That's unfortunate. This is a hobby, and yes, it's all written with Claude. I have a bunch of videos up showing the process. I'm updating the copy of the page to make it extremely clear that it's built using AI so that we can move past that point.

"I want this. I want that. No, not like this, like that. Add this to it."

Sounds like a weird hobby.

Re: Os8088: A powerful Mac-like OS for the IBM XT, 286, 386

#97

Post by kar1181 »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #49

https://os8088.com/how-it-works/multitasking/ > Pre-emptive multitasking on an 8086 > Twelve task slots, 1,536 bytes of stack each, and a timer interrupt that takes the CPU away from whatever is running 18.2065 times a second. No task is asked to cooperate and no task can refuse. If you don't have protected mode, can't any program just rewrite the interrupt handler? It's not a bad system, but it sounds easy to break.

It's a toy, easy to break is what vintage software was. A very different era with users of a very different mindset.

Not just rewrite the interrupt handler either, can rewrite the timer itself :)

Part of the fun of real-mode is the absolute god like power you have. Downside is the 20bit segmented memory model.

Re: Os8088: A powerful Mac-like OS for the IBM XT, 286, 386

#98

Post by userbinator »

winocm wrote: post #56
userbinator wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised Claude is actually decent at real-mode Asm, but maybe there was a lot of attempts and guidance by the human.

The assembly really, really hurts to read.

In what way?

It looks much closer to real human-written Asm than compiler output, which is itself a big win. No stupid calling conventions or obvious bloat. The unmistakably bloated inefficiency of "compiler slop" (that term wasn't used at the time, but those who lived through that Asm vs HLL era on the PC will know exactly what I'm talking about) is not present. I can always spot immediate optimisation opportunities with compiler output, but at a quick glance, not in this code.

...and now I have the idea of getting AI to decompile some existing binaries and then have it optimise/rewrite in the style of human-written Asm... run something like Windows XP or even 11 through it and see if it can be optimised down to a tiny fraction of its current resource usage.

Re: Os8088: A powerful Mac-like OS for the IBM XT, 286, 386

#99

Post by lelanthran »

jggonz wrote: post #59
adrianmonk wrote: post #34

> The graphical operating system that could have been for the IBM XT Visi On[1] was a graphical operating system for the IBM PC that actually existed as a commercial product, though definitely not a very successful one. It was made by VisiCorp, the same company that created VisiCalc (the first spreadsheet for a personal computer). It was demoed at COMDEX in 1982, before the Apple Lisa was released. It came out after…

Author of the AI written os8088 OS here... Thanks for sharing the promotional video for Visi On. It's cool to see how many different companies gave this a shot back in the 80s.

> Author of the AI written os8088 OS here...

I'm curious about your goal in purchasing this project.

You don't get any peer recognition. You don't gain any special skill. You can't copyright it. You can't sell it. You can't use it for anything useful. You can't use it as a learning exercise. It can't really be built on. It can't serve as a tutorial for others to learn.

You don't get the satisfaction of a job well done (well, no more than the satisfaction you get from buying a toaster on Amazon).

Pre-LLM, something like this was a huge achievement. Now it's the equivalent of a 1st-grader showing off their finger-painting like it was the Mona Lisa.

So, what are you getting out of this?

Re: Os8088: A powerful Mac-like OS for the IBM XT, 286, 386

#100

Post by userbinator »

lelanthran wrote: post #99
jggonz wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Author of the AI written os8088 OS here... Thanks for sharing the promotional video for Visi On. It's cool to see how many different companies gave this a shot back in the 80s.

> Author of the AI written os8088 OS here... I'm curious about your goal in purchasing this project. You don't get any peer recognition. You don't gain any special skill. You can't copyright it. You can't sell it. You can't use it for anything useful. You can't use it as a learning exercise. It can't really be built on. It can't serve as a tutorial for others to learn. You don't get the satisfaction of a job well don…

This is something that hasn't been done before, and now exists.

Yes someone could spend immense amounts of time and effort, but clearly no one bothered to until AI made it easier.

yet the complainers will always complain because they don't have anything better to do with their own time...

"bugger off!" as they say.

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