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State of multi-player Wayland

blinry.org

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Re: State of multi-player Wayland

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the example, I meant multiple cursors. I assumed it would have been obvious.

It's not obvious if your core statement is "multiple keyboards is trivial". Assuming that multiple mice obviously means multiple cursors while in the same comment assuming that multiple keyboards obviously does not imply multiple input cursors is in fact pretty confusing to me

Fair point.

Re: State of multi-player Wayland

#92
> This is obviously not a great solution, and VNC in general feels like ancient technology

It's not obvious to me. This looks like software ageism. :)

There are at least 2 things that could be done to improve performance in the author's setup:

  1. Use the --gpu flag which enables dmabuf capture and h264 encoding via vaapi. 
  2. Connect using a dedicated VNC client like TigerVNC. This reduces latency by roughly 50 ms.
For more details on 2. see second paragraph in the following blog post https://andri.yngvason.is/measuring-latencies.html

That being said, noVNC has gained hardware decoding of h264 via WebCodecs since the writing of that blog post, so performance will have improved some. It's unlikely that the 50 ms latency has gone down, but it might be worth measuring again since browsers may opt to render video through a dedicated overlay plane that bypasses regular rendering. However, it would be silly not to synchronise frame presentation between overlays.

Re: State of multi-player Wayland

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It works similarly to the steam deck actually. You flick and then tap/hold to stop.

Does this mean the inertia only applies if you remove your finger at the end of the movement, and so non-flicky movements are interpreted normally, with the cursor stopping as soon as your finger stops? That implementation sounds a lot better than how I interpreted the original comment; I thought they meant it would apply to all movements, even when your finger stays down the whole time.

Yeah. It would only work on trackpads. It’s particularly good when you don’t have a massive MacBook style trackpad.

Re: State of multi-player Wayland

#94

I have been dreaming about a split keyboard with dual trackballs and two cursors for the past few months. This may be the kick i need to actually get on it.

They didn't call them mouse cursors with Ataris and Commodores because almost nobody had heard of a mouse, but there was more than one joystick port so multi-player was built-in from the beginning.

I hadn't heard of a mouse either but when the trackball appeared, mainly to play Centipedes and Missile Command, I used it as a single-button mouse anyway, not only to point & click but to drag & drop which I had never seen demonstrated.

So I made a little 2-player game, not fancy, each player stayed in their own window.

Of course nobody had ever heard of "Windows" either since MS-DOS wasn't even out yet.

Re: State of multi-player Wayland

#97
post #92

> This is obviously not a great solution, and VNC in general feels like ancient technology It's not obvious to me. This looks like software ageism. :) There are at least 2 things that could be done to improve performance in the author's setup: 1. Use the --gpu flag which enables dmabuf capture and h264 encoding via vaapi. 2. Connect using a dedicated VNC client like TigerVNC. This reduces latency by roughly 50 ms. Fo…

Ohh, thanks for that recommendation! I'll have to re-test with the --gpu flag. I added it to the instructions in the blog post.

And you might be right about that ageism comment… didn't realize more efficient encodings were a thing now! Thanks for your work! :)

Re: State of multi-player Wayland

#98

I immediately recognized the avatar of this person. They are the one with the DIY soft drinks which has been posted on HN before: https://blinry.org/diy-soft-drinks/

I know him for a scrollbar demo. Seems he does a lot of stuff. Great guy. File him next to lcamtuf.

Re: State of multi-player Wayland

#99
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's actually a lot more work than you'd think to support this... Like: how would one support multiple keyboards? Is there an experimental or logical model for that?

Multiple keyboards is trivial - unless you meant multiple active cursors. (If you've used a USB keyboard attahced to your laptop - you've already experienced multiple keyboards. Both work.) Multiple mice is esoteric.

Back when we were working in the office, this was honestly a preferred pair programming setup for us. Two people, and each just had their keyboard and mouse.

Interestingly enough, it seemed that the inputs from multiple mice onto the same cursor is summed up by default. So you could fight cursor movement you disagreed with by moving the mouse in the other direction.

Very silly, but quite funny.

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