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Roblox Officially Supports GrapheneOS

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Re: Roblox Officially Supports GrapheneOS

#91

Post by grapheneos »

dugite-code wrote: post #69
andrewaylett wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It requires a positive action from the application developer to include GrapheneOS's keys as well as Google's keys. So this is a deliberate positive step, rather than a default.

Only if they are using hardware key attestation. From what I've read elsewhere it looks like it was never broken so maybe they never went that far before.

Apps rarely use hardware key attestation directly but rather use it via the Play Integrity API. Play Integrity device and strong integrity levels ban using a non-Google-certified OS. Play Integrity uses hardware key attestation for both integrity levels and it's a hard requirement for strong integrity. Developers enforcing one of those integrity levels to use their service need to either stop doing it or add explicit support for non-Google-certified operating systems via key attestation. Roblox's documentation shows they're taking the latter approach.

Re: Roblox Officially Supports GrapheneOS

#92

Post by grapheneos »

flexagoon wrote: post #53
TranquilMarmot wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did have RCS issues with GrapheneOS (on T-Mobile in the US) for a while, but at some point that was fixed and it works flawlessly now. As for camera apps, the stock GrapheneOS camera app is a bit clunky, I just download the stock Android "Camera" off of the Play Store...

> I just download the stock Android "Camera" The "stock Android camera" (the one in AOSP) is absolutely horrible. You're probably using Google's Pixel camera app.

GrapheneOS doesn't use AOSP Camera and there isn't any official way to install it. Stock means the stock OS on the device which is the Pixel OS with Pixel Camera for Pixels.

Re: Roblox Officially Supports GrapheneOS

#93

Post by grapheneos »

annzabelle wrote: post #16
jordand wrote: post #7

Makes sense for them to support this given their scale. I wouldn't be surprised if GrapheneOS secures another big Android OEM vendor (after Motorola Mobility) and the user base of the OS quickly grows from its current 400k+ to millions.

I've been looking into GrapheneOS as a longtime Pixel user who is thinking of becoming a bit more security conscious. But, looking around at its current state RE: RCS and camera apps, I think it makes the most sense to stick with stock Android. I also have a really niche feature I rely on daily (letting me "wifi call" from one sim over the data line of the other sim), and it's really hard to tell if GrapheneOS suppor…

RCS is fully functional on GrapheneOS with an app supporting it. Google Messages is the only RCS app for Android available in practice. It fully works on GrapheneOS via the official sandboxed Google Play compatibility layer support for it.

Camera features and quality on GrapheneOS are the same as the stock Pixel OS within the same app. Pixel Camera fully works on GrapheneOS even without sandboxed Google Play in the same profile.

GrapheneOS fully supports dual SIM and cross-SIM calling. It has much better support for it than the stock Pixel OS because cross-SIM calling is one of the features which can be force enabled for carriers not usually supporting it with the GrapheneOS carrier overrides. That also applies to 5G, VoLTE, Vo5G and VoWiFi where those can be used on carriers where those aren't available with the stock Pixel OS.

> but GrapheneOS really doesn't seem ready to be a daily driver

GrapheneOS is a daily driver for many people. The 3 things you've listed as concerns work at least as well in GrapheneOS as the stock OS. You're assuming functionality that's available is missing.

Re: Roblox Officially Supports GrapheneOS

#94

Post by grapheneos »

malmeloo wrote: post #17
annzabelle wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been looking into GrapheneOS as a longtime Pixel user who is thinking of becoming a bit more security conscious. But, looking around at its current state RE: RCS and camera apps, I think it makes the most sense to stick with stock Android. I also have a really niche feature I rely on daily (letting me "wifi call" from one sim over the data line of the other sim), and it's really hard to tell if GrapheneOS suppor…

What's the issue with RCS and camera apps? RCS works (from what i've heard) and you get the same image quality as on stock if you install the pixel camera app. Not sure about that other feature you mentioned, but you can always revert back to stock if you don't like GOS. Restoring a backup is easier than it's ever been nowadays :-).

RCS is fully functional on GrapheneOS. Google Messages is the only RCS available for Android in practice and is fully supported by the sandboxed Google Play compatibility layer. It provides a special for granting ICC authentication access to Play services for it.

Camera features and quality are the same as the stock OS within the same app. Pixel Camera works fine on GrapheneOS.

Cross-SIM calling is better supported on GrapheneOS than the stock OS due to our carrier overrides features for force enabling features which aren't otherwise available.

Re: Roblox Officially Supports GrapheneOS

#95

Post by grapheneos »

annzabelle wrote: post #20
malmeloo wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the issue with RCS and camera apps? RCS works (from what i've heard) and you get the same image quality as on stock if you install the pixel camera app. Not sure about that other feature you mentioned, but you can always revert back to stock if you don't like GOS. Restoring a backup is easier than it's ever been nowadays :-).

My understanding was that you have to install google messages to get RCS to work and on google's end it gets finicky about device ids. I read a couple blogs where people found RCS to be really unstable on GrapheneOS even with a couple workarounds. If I'm going to have to install a bunch of google products onto my phone anyways, I don't buy the benefits as much. I also had a recent experience being shaken down by a bo…

RCS is fully functional on GrapheneOS. Google Messages is the only implementation of RCS available for Android in practice. RCS is a proprietary Google messaging system in practice. Google hosts a huge portion of the infrastructure and gatekeeps access to it. It would be possible to make an alternative RCS client for Android but it would still using Google infrastructure since carriers are using it.

> If I'm going to have to install a bunch of google products onto my phone anyways, I don't buy the benefits as much.

GrapheneOS is not about specifically avoiding Google apps and services. You've said you want to use Google's RCS messaging system, which would not take away from the benefits of using GrapheneOS.

> a weird privacy focused OS

GrapheneOS is a widely used open source project. It's well known and there's nothing unusual about using it. The hypothetical situation you're describing is not something which has ever been known to happen.

> Also the backup restoration is a bit more of a mess for me right now

GrapheneOS has better backup/restore support than the stock OS. It doesn't have privileged Google Play integration for using Google's very limited app backup/restore or their more capable device transfer feature. GrapheneOS has an equivalent to the device transfer feature which can be used for both encrypted local and cloud backups.

> dual sim feature

GrapheneOS fully supports cross-SIM calling and it's one of the features it adds the option to force enable for carriers not otherwise supporting it alongside 5G, VoLTE, Vo5G and VoWiFi

Re: Roblox Officially Supports GrapheneOS

#96

Post by grapheneos »

DANmode wrote: post #21
annzabelle wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding was that you have to install google messages to get RCS to work and on google's end it gets finicky about device ids. I read a couple blogs where people found RCS to be really unstable on GrapheneOS even with a couple workarounds. If I'm going to have to install a bunch of google products onto my phone anyways, I don't buy the benefits as much. I also had a recent experience being shaken down by a bo…

RCS is unstable on iOS, too, for the same reasons SMS has always been unstable. It’s the nature of the protocol, unfortunately.

RCS is fully functional on GrapheneOS. It works as well as it does on the stock Pixel OS.

Re: Roblox Officially Supports GrapheneOS

#97

Post by grapheneos »

annzabelle wrote: post #24
DANmode wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RCS is unstable on iOS, too, for the same reasons SMS has always been unstable. It’s the nature of the protocol, unfortunately.

Maybe I should've specified: I have seen many anecdotes of RCS being substantially more unreliable on GrapheneOS than it is on stock Android.

RCS is fully functional on GrapheneOS. It works as well as it does on the stock Pixel OS.

Re: Roblox Officially Supports GrapheneOS

#98

Post by grapheneos »

DANmode wrote: post #34
annzabelle wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I should've specified: I have seen many anecdotes of RCS being substantially more unreliable on GrapheneOS than it is on stock Android.

Finish the play: unreliable in what way, on which side (send, receive)?

RCS is fully functional on GrapheneOS. It works as well as it does on the stock Pixel OS.

Re: Roblox Officially Supports GrapheneOS

#99

Post by grapheneos »

DANmode wrote: post #86
chaosharmonic wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So the issue with RCS is that google just this last year made the move from their internal implementation of E2EE for RCS to the standard implementation based on MLS (now that the standard impl is actually viable). > They did this quietly in the background and most people didn't notice but in doing so they released new system/OS level services and started relying on those. And notably they did this rollout staggere…

> What's left in terms of meaningful technical barriers, that would prevent this all from being baked into Android instead of requiring Play Services? The short version: no open source RCS libraries exist. The implementation in AOSP is out of date/dead.

AOSP fully supports everything needed for RCS. AOSP doesn't provide any actively developed messaging app so an app with RCS support needs to come from elsewhere. AOSP never provided an RCS messaging app. AOSP only provides a sample SMS/MMS app for testing purposes which is intended to be replaced. GrapheneOS is well into the process of replacing it including replacing nearly the whole user interface in our development branch followed by improving the under the hood code. It's not an RCS app and never was but we plan to eventually make our own RCS implementation instead of only providing fully functional compatibility with Google Messages.

Re: Roblox Officially Supports GrapheneOS

#100

Post by grapheneos »

tripleee wrote: post #78

support? I'm yet to come across an Android app I can't run on GrapheneOS.. what exactly are they doing?

They're doing attestation checks to enforce having a Google certified device and OS. They followed our attestation compatibility guide to support GrapheneOS by permitting the verified boot keys for it and have said they're open to permitting other operating systems in the same way. It would be better if apps didn't do this but if they're going to do it then this is much better than only permitting a Google certified OS.
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