Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ha! That’s some rose-colored-glasses view of BSD history. The lawsuit didn’t help. But the BSD developers shot themselves in the foot when they refused to support x86, referring to it as a “toy”. It wasn't until Linux came along and started eating up all of BSD's user base that they freaked out and decided x86 support might be a good idea. But by then it was too late.
I don't recall them refusing to support x86, but BSD development was mostly done by academics rewriting and improving AT&T UNIX, which was mostly on big iron systems of the time. They were focused on academic computer science work. The lawsuits stopped a lot of BSD work as the universities were sorting it all out. William and Lynne Jolitz start porting 4.3BSD to the Intel 80386 at Berkeley in 1989 (but the code wasn'…
Theo de Raadt: "You've been smoking something mind altering" (2007)
91–99 of 99 posts
Re: Theo de Raadt: "You've been smoking something mind altering" (2007)
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
Some people keep classic flames alive to deploy in times of need. Theo's good, but he can't hold a candle to the late Marc Cripsin railing about emacs line-mode-visual. Grr. https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/1tf1iy/imap_inventor... >From: Mark Crispin, To: comp.lang.emacs >What mindless cretin thought that it should be a good idea to make line-move-visual be the default in emacs 23? I just found out about this…
i don't know that crispin rant sounds pretty reasonable to me. it's not insulting and the argument is coherent. he has a point.
Re: Theo de Raadt: "You've been smoking something mind altering" (2007)
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
> But the BSD developers shot themselves in the foot when they refused to support x86, referring to it as a “toy”. When was that? Presumably wwaaaaaaaay before 386BSD was a thing right?
386BSD came out about the right time, but as noted, development was slow, and the original author abandoned it pretty quickly while at the same time Linux was actively gaining traction and growing rapidly. Quotes below: "No one else saw the 386 as interesting. Berkeley had a myopic attitude toward PCs. They were just toys. No one would support Intel." — Jordan Hubbard [1] --- Jolitz's project, of course, found many…
I did have a 286, but I also didn't have a way to get Minix.
And then round about the time that I got a 386SX-25 with a whopping 4MB of RAM, Linux 0.9 came around on a couple of floppies, and that was kind of that.
I don't know if I still even have that 386, a little small form factor Compaq Deskpro. I know I needed to add a bodge wire to repair a blown comm port at one point. I hope I still do have it, it's probably got some of my terrible early Unix programming on it!
Re: Theo de Raadt: "You've been smoking something mind altering" (2007)
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't recall them refusing to support x86, but BSD development was mostly done by academics rewriting and improving AT&T UNIX, which was mostly on big iron systems of the time. They were focused on academic computer science work. The lawsuits stopped a lot of BSD work as the universities were sorting it all out. William and Lynne Jolitz start porting 4.3BSD to the Intel 80386 at Berkeley in 1989 (but the code wasn'…
Early windows with tcp/it natively had the bsd stack too. I forgot where but itd blatantly show you that in one prompt or another.
I think the older NT source code is now available to read, isn't it? Going back and sorting out the truth of some of the claims from the 90s OS wars might actually be quite a fun research project...
Re: Theo de Raadt: "You've been smoking something mind altering" (2007)
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
> replaces an ultra-functional general-purpose kernel evolved over decades to support every conceivable application with a drastically smaller "kernel" Is a Proxmox kernel that much smaller than a typical Linux kernel?
Isn't Proxmox a management layover over Debian and KVM? I doubt the kernel is even smaller.
Re: Theo de Raadt: "You've been smoking something mind altering" (2007)
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
i don't know that crispin rant sounds pretty reasonable to me. it's not insulting and the argument is coherent. he has a point.
I mean it literally starts with "What mindless cretin thought that it should be a good idea", and later calls them a "bagbiter". If you were responsible for the change, you would feel insulted. His basic point seems valid, but this is not a great way to present it.
bagbiter /bag'bi:t-*r/ n.
1. Something, such as a program or a computer, that fails to work, or works in a remarkably clumsy manner. "This text editor won't let me make a file with a line longer than 80 characters! What a bagbiter!" 2. A person who has caused you some trouble, inadvertently or otherwise, typically by failing to program the computer properly. Synonyms: loser, cretin, chomper. 3. `bite the bag' vi. To fail in some manner. "The computer keeps crashing every five minutes." "Yes, the disk controller is really biting the bag."
The original loading of these terms was almost undoubtedly obscene, possibly referring to a douche bag or the scrotum (we have reports of "Bite the douche bag!" being used as a taunt at MIT 1970-1976, and we have another report that "Bite the bag!" was in common use at least as early as 1965), but in their current usage they have become almost completely sanitized.
ITS's lexiphage program was the first and to date only known example of a program intended to be a bagbiter.
chomp: vi.
1. To lose; specifically, to chew on something of which more was bitten off than one can. Probably related to gnashing of teeth.
2. To bite the bag; See bagbiter.
A hand gesture commonly accompanies this. To perform it, hold the four fingers together and place the thumb against their tips. Now open and close your hand rapidly to suggest a biting action (much like what Pac-Man does in the classic video game, though this pantomime seems to predate that). The gesture alone means ‘chomp chomp’ (see Verb Doubling in the Jargon Construction section of the Prependices). The hand may be pointed at the object of complaint, and for real emphasis you can use both hands at once. Doing this to a person is equivalent to saying “You chomper!” If you point the gesture at yourself, it is a humble but humorous admission of some failure. You might do this if someone told you that a program you had written had failed in some surprising way and you felt dumb for not having anticipated it.
Marc also wrote RFC #748 documenting the Telnet Randomly-Lose Option on April 1, 1978:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc748
IAC WILL RANDOMLY-LOSE
The sender of this command REQUESTS permission to, or confirms
that it will, randomly lose.
IAC WON'T RANDOMLY-LOSE
The sender of this command REFUSES to randomly lose.
IAC DO RANDOMLY-LOSE
The sender of this command REQUESTS that the receiver, or grants
the receiver permission to, randomly lose.
IAC DON'T RANDOMLY-LOSE
The command sender DEMANDS that the receiver not randomly lose.Re: Theo de Raadt: "You've been smoking something mind altering" (2007)
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
Early windows with tcp/it natively had the bsd stack too. I forgot where but itd blatantly show you that in one prompt or another.
Was that ever verified? I know that detractors said that, but MS claimed that the copyright notice was only there to cover the utilities like ping.exe and finger.exe (which really were based on BSD). I think the older NT source code is now available to read, isn't it? Going back and sorting out the truth of some of the claims from the 90s OS wars might actually be quite a fun research project...
Re: Theo de Raadt: "You've been smoking something mind altering" (2007)
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are many extremely competent engineers who can’t deal with the idea of exposing themselves to public humiliation. That’s especially true in today’s environment where these kind of bully rants have become a spectacle for outsiders. Just google the name of the person who was the subject to one of Linus’ rants about a year ago. Despite being a very accomplished figure in the RISC-V world, top results for his name…
> It’s perfectly possible to critique without being a bully. Yep. And it's perfectly possible to accept being called stupid, if you truly did do something boneheaded. It's not a permanent scar that ruins the rest of your life, as you seem to believe. > What Theo and Linus are doing wrong is scaring away a large pool of potential contributors who don’t want to take that risk. Good riddance.
Re: Theo de Raadt: "You've been smoking something mind altering" (2007)
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are many extremely competent engineers who can’t deal with the idea of exposing themselves to public humiliation. That’s especially true in today’s environment where these kind of bully rants have become a spectacle for outsiders. Just google the name of the person who was the subject to one of Linus’ rants about a year ago. Despite being a very accomplished figure in the RISC-V world, top results for his name…
> It’s perfectly possible to critique without being a bully. Yep. And it's perfectly possible to accept being called stupid, if you truly did do something boneheaded. It's not a permanent scar that ruins the rest of your life, as you seem to believe. > What Theo and Linus are doing wrong is scaring away a large pool of potential contributors who don’t want to take that risk. Good riddance.