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Leanstral 1.5: Proof abundance for all

mistral.ai

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Re: Leanstral 1.5: Proof abundance for all

#91
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've gone from zero knowledge of lean4 to the point where I'm doing most of my coding with it in ~6 months, and this was dramatically helped by how facile the AI assist is: it's remarkable how consistently fluent models are in lean4. I've found this to be true of the near frontier and smaller local models alike, LLMs just seem to get lean4. I still have a ways to go before calling myself a lean4 expert, but I don't n…

Are you writing general use programs in it, then? Have any good examples?

It's early days of using it as a general purpose programming language, my initial use case was using it as a metaprogramming framework that lowered into target languages with some rigor on correspondence of the lowered artifact and the proof-amenable surface. By lines of code the biggest use case historically was describing state machines and codecs/protocols for high-assurance IO primitives: define QUIC or ZMTP once and get idealized performance C++ and Rust and Haskell (Zig coming soon) protocol suite native to io_uring.

Another big use case is GPU kernel compilation. I've encoded the polyhedral algebra used by CuTe and all of the stated theorems from nvfuser in lean4. From this you can recover scheduling and tiling properties that must be met to get equal or better performance to CASK (likely optimal) for many operations, and then lower that to PTX. Surprisingly often the candidate set for the fastest possible kernel turns out to be finite and enumerable, so fast inference.

Somewhat recently I started benchmarking stuff just directly in lean4 with a very small TCB shim to e.g. io_uring. I've done like the basic systems programming ABCs (I've got a reverse proxy that's lean4 and ~100 lines of C and shatters nginx, faster at every point on the histogram, memory use flat as a strap). Lithe runs on it so I can do web serving as fast as anything in the hyper ecosystem.

Now that I've got my feet with it I'm digging in on a serious project which is a hypervisor that addresses the deficiencies in firecracker. This is a place where some proven properties can really get you a lot of performance (something like firecracker has to be very defensive regarding e.g. virtqueue semantics in the presence of a malicious guest). Firecracker is an exceptional piece of code and it's carried me far but at agent scale it's time to go another turn of the crank on virtualization performance.

Re: Leanstral 1.5: Proof abundance for all

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

big AI labs make so much money because they have a good (amazing) product

Big AI labs aren't making money. They're buying revenue. Sure, the product is amazing, but it wouldn't be as amazing if offered at cost - which is exactly where "good enough" smaller and specialized models will survive.

They are selling api tokens at good margins. Of course they then reinvest all of it in research for new models and for continued growth. But the api inference is profitable.

Re: Leanstral 1.5: Proof abundance for all

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anthropic is selling API tokens at 80% margin. And API is 80% of their business (subscriptions the other 20%)

But they're still not making money (apart from two quarters when they got massive discounts from xAI).

That’s by choice. Spend more than you make and you can claim no profit. They could become profitable overnight by cutting spending, though that would also be akin to switching from a run to a walk in the AI race.

Re: Leanstral 1.5: Proof abundance for all

#94
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But how does it compete on OCR? I find that having good quality at a cheap price is more niche than having the best quality at 10x the cheap price, because for most use cases you want to pay a bit more if it saves you mistakes later.

It's really good. I didn't do any type of statistical evaluation or comparison to other models, but it's so good that it doesn't matter to me if there's an option that might be even better.

This just dropped: https://huggingface.co/baidu/Unlimited-OCR

Which can run comfortably on 12gb of vram. I gave it a whirl and it does seem pretty competitive. I wonder how that compares for your usecase

Re: Leanstral 1.5: Proof abundance for all

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well all commodities are like this. replace AI with milk, or plastic. It's easy for me to just move to different milk provider, this does not mean that milk industry is not a business. And yes, its good that "its good for buyer" after all we do business so that living would be nicer, not the other way around (live to do business)

There are three different supermarkets in my neighborhood but they all sell milk from the same two suppliers. It would actually be quite difficult for me to turn to a third brand.

Which is an intentional failure of the system

Re: Leanstral 1.5: Proof abundance for all

#96
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

big AI labs make so much money because they have a good (amazing) product

Do they even _make_ actual money? https://isaiprofitable.com/ seems to disagree.

You were a net loss for ~18y or even more and not many people were concerned.

Re: Leanstral 1.5: Proof abundance for all

#97

Can this be useful for someone with no prior knowledge of lean? I'd like to verify a software I'm working on, but I have no experience in formal verification. Can I get useful result with the spec, the code and some (limited) learning time on my side?

I've gone from zero knowledge of lean4 to the point where I'm doing most of my coding with it in ~6 months, and this was dramatically helped by how facile the AI assist is: it's remarkable how consistently fluent models are in lean4. I've found this to be true of the near frontier and smaller local models alike, LLMs just seem to get lean4. I still have a ways to go before calling myself a lean4 expert, but I don't n…

Any chance you can share any of your process? Super interesting to hear you use lean as a meta language, I'd be curious to see how you've harnessed this (as I'd like to do the same)!

Re: Leanstral 1.5: Proof abundance for all

#98
post #24
post #8

I gave Codex with GPT-5.5 High this prompt: Identify bugs in [datrs/varinteger](https://github.com/datrs/varinteger) . Do NOT look at the GitHub issues, just inspect the source It also found the bug that Leanstral 1.5 found and the authors highlighted. I think this bug wasn't especially tricky; it's just a case of too few eyeballs on this repo. Congrats on the release regardless! Excited for the direction Lean + auto…

Given that they directly compare to GPT-5.5 in their documentation. This comes off as puppy kicking to me. They state it is not SOTA, even IN its domain! Honestly: Think twice before dragging your firm into what you say. Disclaimer: I speak for myself. Not any firm I am associated with.

[deleted]

Re: Leanstral 1.5: Proof abundance for all

#99
post #24
post #8

I gave Codex with GPT-5.5 High this prompt: Identify bugs in [datrs/varinteger](https://github.com/datrs/varinteger) . Do NOT look at the GitHub issues, just inspect the source It also found the bug that Leanstral 1.5 found and the authors highlighted. I think this bug wasn't especially tricky; it's just a case of too few eyeballs on this repo. Congrats on the release regardless! Excited for the direction Lean + auto…

Given that they directly compare to GPT-5.5 in their documentation. This comes off as puppy kicking to me. They state it is not SOTA, even IN its domain! Honestly: Think twice before dragging your firm into what you say. Disclaimer: I speak for myself. Not any firm I am associated with.

Sorry, I recognize that these are different classes of model and didn't mean to punch down. I'm genuinely excited for the work Mistral is doing in this space!

Re: Leanstral 1.5: Proof abundance for all

#100
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure some people like to make less money and pay more taxes for ideological reasons. I respect that.

I like to make less money and pay more taxes for higher quality of life reasons. Sure I could go to America and have more many in my pocket by eating mcdonalds every day, but I'd rather eat amazing high quality food and have less money in my pocket.

what country is that ? I'm just curious as most European coworkers I have spoken to have not so nice things to say about EU and their country.
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