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Virginia bans sale of precise geolocation data

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Re: Virginia bans sale of precise geolocation data

#91

Post by 8note »

codazoda wrote: post #30
peter303 wrote: post #7

NYTimes article a few years ago on how car insurance companies were using such data. Tracking sudden stoos, driving at night, driving faster than 80 mph, etc.

As an aside… I wonder why “80 mph” was picked as an arbitrary value. In rural areas of Utah we have 80 mph posted limits and prima facie speed laws. A lot of Utah drivers regularly exceed 80 MPH and I’d argue they do so legally. It’s just a weird number for them to pick.

people that drive on those high speed roads are more likely to be involved in more dangerous/harmful collisions?

legally and unlikely-to-make-expensive-consequences are separate items that insurance exists to differentiate

why shouldnt people driving on such dangerous roads have to pay higher insurance rates?

Re: Virginia bans sale of precise geolocation data

#92

Post by smalltorch »

codazoda wrote: post #30
peter303 wrote: post #7

NYTimes article a few years ago on how car insurance companies were using such data. Tracking sudden stoos, driving at night, driving faster than 80 mph, etc.

As an aside… I wonder why “80 mph” was picked as an arbitrary value. In rural areas of Utah we have 80 mph posted limits and prima facie speed laws. A lot of Utah drivers regularly exceed 80 MPH and I’d argue they do so legally. It’s just a weird number for them to pick.

It's not arbitrary, there are limits of physics to how fast you can slow down on rubber wheels no matter how good your brakes are. The stopping distance starts to grow dramatically around these speeds.

Re: Virginia bans sale of precise geolocation data

#93

Post by rirze »

stackskipton wrote: post #84
polski-g wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not arbitrary. In Virginia that's a guaranteed reckless driving charge.

Not anymore. It got moved to 85 because speed limit on interstates moved to 70.

How do one know this? I don't know where to get this information and whether to trust it.

Re: Virginia bans sale of precise geolocation data

#94

Post by moron4hire »

codazoda wrote: post #30
peter303 wrote: post #7

NYTimes article a few years ago on how car insurance companies were using such data. Tracking sudden stoos, driving at night, driving faster than 80 mph, etc.

As an aside… I wonder why “80 mph” was picked as an arbitrary value. In rural areas of Utah we have 80 mph posted limits and prima facie speed laws. A lot of Utah drivers regularly exceed 80 MPH and I’d argue they do so legally. It’s just a weird number for them to pick.

In jurisdictions where 65MPH is the highway speed limit, 80MPH is usually the "reckless driving" threshold. And in Virginia, reckless driving is a felony misdemeanor.

Re: Virginia bans sale of precise geolocation data

#95

Post by smalltorch »

kube-system wrote: post #23
mathgeek wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It likely fits the definition of precise location data that you can configure on mobile settings (it's a finer grained option you can enable when sharing your location).

Laws typically define terms like this, and this law is no exception. > "Precise geolocation data" means information derived from technology, including but not limited to global positioning system level latitude and longitude coordinates or other mechanisms, that directly identifies the specific location of a natural person with precision and accuracy within a radius of 1,750 feet. "Precise geolocation data" does not…

>"Precise geolocation data" does not include the content of communications or any data generated by or connected to advanced utility metering infrastructure systems or equipment for use by a utility.

What exactly does this mean?

Re: Virginia bans sale of precise geolocation data

#96

Post by rubyfan »

Retric wrote: post #62
s1artibartfast wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the limit of coercion? Can someone provide a product that loudly says "we will sell your geolocation data" on checkout? Is it coercion if you simply want the product?

Yes. Paying the money the data is worth isn’t coercive, linking some other transaction to selling your location data is. This includes having a discount larger than what your location data is worth. IE: I’ll sell you this car for 50k, o you want it without location tracking that will be 150k.

I think the practice of tying the use of one product to coerce the loss of rights of your private data has some comparables (noted below).

The law seems to recognize that companies coercing someone to give up money using tie-ins may be illegal but is not yet recognizing data as a monetary equivalent. Because it’s not money it’s not regulated.

Isn’t it time that our data be treated as the exchange of value that it is? And the coercion should be something we are protected against?

1. abuse of monopoly power in tie-in sales.

https://www.ftc.gov/advice-guidance/competition-guidance/gui...

2. Freebie marketing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Razor-and-blades_model

3. RESPA

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/real-estate-settlement-...

Re: Virginia bans sale of precise geolocation data

#97

Post by Grombobulous »

Pxtl wrote: post #79

What I find confusing is that I know an infinite plethora of companies have geolocation data in everyone.... But I look at my fairly-stock Pixel phone and the only things with background geolocation permissions are Google apps, and I know google famously hoards that data like a dragon. Is it just that people are happily allowing every app access to live geoloc data even in background? Is there some edge where "while…

The cellular companies themselves are a source for this, as they don't even need GPS or app permissions to triangulate your rough location.

Apps that have access to look for networks can also be used to infer location. E.g., combine multiple known WiFi SSIDs or Bluetooth devices together and you can get a rough location.

Also, most people just hit "accept" for a whole bunch of app permissions and just forget about it. The fact that you even know which apps have which permissions at all means you are almost certainly more careful than the average person, even though you are saying this in the context of a stock Pixel phone.

And, oh yeah, most people have much more invasive Android phone brands than Pixel...cheap phones with a bunch of carrier/advertising partner spyware sell far better than Google's phones. Does Samsung still install the Facebook app by default like they used to? I think it used to be impossible to fully delete, even!

Re: Virginia bans sale of precise geolocation data

#99

Post by wizzwizz4 »

smalltorch wrote: post #95
kube-system wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laws typically define terms like this, and this law is no exception. > "Precise geolocation data" means information derived from technology, including but not limited to global positioning system level latitude and longitude coordinates or other mechanisms, that directly identifies the specific location of a natural person with precision and accuracy within a radius of 1,750 feet. "Precise geolocation data" does not…

>"Precise geolocation data" does not include the content of communications or any data generated by or connected to advanced utility metering infrastructure systems or equipment for use by a utility. What exactly does this mean?

Smart meters. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_meter

Re: Virginia bans sale of precise geolocation data

#100

Post by iamnothere »

charcircuit wrote: post #82
Avicebron wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And when those "informed decisions" are denying healthcare/insurance/loans/what have you?

I personally see it as similar to fraud if you are deliberately hiding a piece of information that makes you riskier to insure or loan money to. In order to accurately assess risk you need personalized data. So I see this as being a more fair deal. It's like when the internet made it possible to look up the price of good easily how it made it less likely for buyers to be able to lowball people. These price guides may…

I agree. If someone is found to be employed by a data broker, for example, they should be uninsurable and should not receive loans.
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