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Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

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Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#91

Post by d3Xt3r »

Aeolun wrote: post #45
lwansbrough wrote: post #9

Europeans don’t get scolded enough for their resistance to air conditioning. In terms of accounting for preventable deaths, Greece has 2x more heat-related deaths per capita annually than Mississippi has gun deaths. By comparison, the worst US state for heat related deaths, Nevada - a literal desert - has >10x fewer deaths per capita than Greece.

I think it's more that air conditioning is (currently) prohibitively expensive. The few people I know that have it spent several thousands of euros on their installations. That's not something most people have lying around. You'd think the government could subsidize aircon like they did solar for years, and both of those things combined would translate to very pleasant summers spent in energy neutral air conditioned…

You don't even need an expensive AC. If you can't afford one, you can just get an evaporative cooler[1] for $100 or lesser[2]. Possibly even cheaper if you don't mind buying a second-hand unit.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaporative_cooler

[2] https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Evaporative+cooler

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#92

Post by Noaidi »

stronglikedan wrote: post #50
g-b-r wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Had the US not used air conditioning so much we probably wouldn't have this heatwave right now. Oh but what's the problem, just add more air conditioning! :facepalm:

> Had the US not used air conditioning so much we probably wouldn't have this heatwave right now. Sure we would, since AC has nothing to do with it.

If we were more exposed to the hot weather with no way to escape it maybe we would actually do something about climate change.

By creating and artificial climate in all or our homes we are so disconnected from the world that we think technology will fix it.

Just wait fro the wildfires to blow up this week in the western US. AC will not help.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#93

Post by Noaidi »

shitloadofbooks wrote: post #6

"Extreme Heat" seems to be 37-40 degrees Celsius which is bafflingly mundane to me as an Australian who grew up in rural New South Wales. We'd pack 30 kids and a teacher into an un-airconditioned classroom with just a ceiling fan and the windows open in that temperature. I imagine the buildings there just aren't built to support that heat plus the body height of hundreds or thousands of attendees?

I imagine people who lived in the UK for generations have genes that are adapted to a more mild, cooler climate.

https://www.cell.com/trends/genetics/fulltext/S0168-9525(20)...

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#94

Post by basisword »

stevage wrote: post #70
Aeolun wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's more that air conditioning is (currently) prohibitively expensive. The few people I know that have it spent several thousands of euros on their installations. That's not something most people have lying around. You'd think the government could subsidize aircon like they did solar for years, and both of those things combined would translate to very pleasant summers spent in energy neutral air conditioned…

It's strange what people think is expensive. Double glazing is very expensive but no one in Europe would go without it. Aircon is not expensive within the context of a house's construction costs.

>> Double glazing is very expensive but no one in Europe would go without it.

This isn’t true. I’ve lived in 3 places in London with single glazing. They’re surprisingly common. All new properties come with it but the majority of our housing stock is old.

There’s also little comparison between air con and double glazing. One will be helpful for 4-6 months of the year and reduce my energy bills. The other will be necessary at most 1-2 weeks a year and will cost me thousands of pounds up front. Most people simply can’t afford that.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#95

Post by Larrikin »

Noaidi wrote: post #88
lazide wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weirdest argument to keep letting 100k grandmas die from heat every summer I’ve ever heard.

100k grandmas die from heat every summer because of our ignorance of climate change and a propaganda machine that denies that it is real.

Is this an argument to do nothing and let people die because there exist awful people in the world that want to profit from climate change? You can do walk and chew bubble gum in this fight.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#96

Post by JadeNB »

lwansbrough wrote: post #9

Europeans don’t get scolded enough for their resistance to air conditioning. In terms of accounting for preventable deaths, Greece has 2x more heat-related deaths per capita annually than Mississippi has gun deaths. By comparison, the worst US state for heat related deaths, Nevada - a literal desert - has >10x fewer deaths per capita than Greece.

I don't mean to pick on an irrelevant detail, but I genuinely don't know how to parse ">10x fewer deaths per capita." Does it mean "fewer than 1/10 as many deaths per capita," i.e., the ratio (heat related deaths in Nevada per capita)/(heat related deaths in Greece per capita) is less than 1/10?

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#97

Post by Larrikin »

Noaidi wrote: post #86
xoa wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And it raises the heat outside of buildings. No it doesn't. Seriously, where does this meme even come from? It should be pretty obvious just from a solar insolation map that AC is just noise vs the sun. The energy usage is tiny vs vehicles or non-heat pump heating and only electric. What changes temperature overall is the balance of thermal retention by the atmosphere vs radiation into space, hence why net increase…

> No it doesn't. Yes, it does. It may be small temperature increase but AC use increases outside temperatures. It is just physics. Here is a simple diagram: https://www.lozierheatingcooling.com/filesimages/heatPump.jp...

Give a chart with actual numbers on the increase in temperature versus the sun. Not a diagram from an elementary science textbook on how air conditioners work.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#98

Post by alamortsubite »

d3Xt3r wrote: post #91
Aeolun wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's more that air conditioning is (currently) prohibitively expensive. The few people I know that have it spent several thousands of euros on their installations. That's not something most people have lying around. You'd think the government could subsidize aircon like they did solar for years, and both of those things combined would translate to very pleasant summers spent in energy neutral air conditioned…

You don't even need an expensive AC. If you can't afford one, you can just get an evaporative cooler[1] for $100 or lesser[2]. Possibly even cheaper if you don't mind buying a second-hand unit. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaporative_cooler [2] https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Evaporative+cooler

Those really only work in very dry climates. So some of Europe, but not places like the UK where the conference was cancelled.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#99

Post by basisword »

eisa01 wrote: post #39
lwansbrough wrote: post #9

Europeans don’t get scolded enough for their resistance to air conditioning. In terms of accounting for preventable deaths, Greece has 2x more heat-related deaths per capita annually than Mississippi has gun deaths. By comparison, the worst US state for heat related deaths, Nevada - a literal desert - has >10x fewer deaths per capita than Greece.

Agree Especially as air conditioning are heat pumps. Would have helped solve the large dependency on natural gas heating for free as a byproduct!

In the UK my understanding is there are large subsidies for installing heat pumps in new builds - but you lose the subsidy if you include the cooling part.

NB: a friend in construction explained this to me so I could be wrong but it would explain why even pretty fancy new apartments with heat pumps have no cooling.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#100

Post by chmod775 »

Noaidi wrote: post #86
xoa wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And it raises the heat outside of buildings. No it doesn't. Seriously, where does this meme even come from? It should be pretty obvious just from a solar insolation map that AC is just noise vs the sun. The energy usage is tiny vs vehicles or non-heat pump heating and only electric. What changes temperature overall is the balance of thermal retention by the atmosphere vs radiation into space, hence why net increase…

> No it doesn't. Yes, it does. It may be small temperature increase but AC use increases outside temperatures. It is just physics. Here is a simple diagram: https://www.lozierheatingcooling.com/filesimages/heatPump.jp...

This effect is temporary. Otherwise one could run their AC once for a few minutes and then it'd be cold inside your home for the rest of the year until you turn up heating.

In reality equilibrium is restored quickly (and the thermal mass we're cooling/heating here is insignificant anyhow).

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