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SMPTE Makes Its Standards Freely Accessible

smpte.org

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Re: SMPTE Makes Its Standards Freely Accessible

#91

Post by Hendrikto »

kyrra wrote: post #42
geerlingguy wrote: post #2

I don't understand why any standards body would consider not doing this as a default.

Construction codes are still pay walled. NEC (electric) is $170: https://www.nfpa.org/product/nfpa-70-national-electrical-cod... IPC (plumbing) is $130: https://webstore.ansi.org/standards/icc/iccipc2024 And there are many others. (I will say the YC company https://up.codes/ makes these much more accessible, and deals with local variants to these regulations)

> You have to build your projects to these specifications, or you will be held accountable! What specifications? Oh, you will have to pay to access them.

This is essentially a protection racket. Ludicrous.

Re: SMPTE Makes Its Standards Freely Accessible

#92

Post by TeMPOraL »

rswail wrote: post #84
eek2121 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GitHub == git, which is free. You can clone the repo and push it to wherever. No comment on the rest. I am just pointing out that using GitHub for source code doesn't mean mean that code can't be easily forked or used elsewhere. I suspect GitHub is for convenience since the majority of folks using git use it.

The git part of github is a very small part of it, they are using Github issues etc which are not exportable/cross-platform. So yes, you can git clone the repo and get the HTML, but if you want all the other stuff (the "github based workflows") then you have to use github.

> but if you want all the other stuff (the "github based workflows") then you have to use github.

Except what would you want it for? The issues and wikis and "github based workflows" are for people working on a thing, not for people using that thing or depending on it.

Re: SMPTE Makes Its Standards Freely Accessible

#93

Post by rswail »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #92
rswail wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The git part of github is a very small part of it, they are using Github issues etc which are not exportable/cross-platform. So yes, you can git clone the repo and get the HTML, but if you want all the other stuff (the "github based workflows") then you have to use github.

> but if you want all the other stuff (the "github based workflows") then you have to use github. Except what would you want it for? The issues and wikis and "github based workflows" are for people working on a thing, not for people using that thing or depending on it.

People that write standards and work on committees that write standards are working on a thing.

SMPTE have chosen github because it has the other stuff to allow them to manage the committee work, handle the issues raised in committees, drafts, tagging different versions, dealing with the committee processes etc.

They could have chosen something like JIRA, so at least we've avoided that.

That's what they said in the post about it being open.

They've moved the internal email mailing lists and other workflow to github as well as using git for the version control of the source.

Re: SMPTE Makes Its Standards Freely Accessible

#94

Post by RetroTechie »

kelnos wrote: post #53
kazinator wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes standards bodies are formed by an oligarchy of industry players who have decided that their businesses would be simplified by mutual interoperability. They have no interest in lowering any bar of entry for other players though; certainly, they don't care about some hobbyist who balks at forking up $300 for a document.

To be fair, though, $300 is a pretty low bar. Certainly for any company, but even for a decent chunk of hobbyists who are really into building something. Even a few thousand dollars isn't much of a barrier for a company that wants to build a product.

> To be fair, though, $300 is a pretty low bar.

What? You mean it's reasonable for a DIYer to cough up $300 just to find out what's the current standard for say, color coding wires on an AC outlet?

Re: SMPTE Makes Its Standards Freely Accessible

#95

Post by returnorthrow »

SoftTalker wrote: post #8
s1mon wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_of_Motion_Picture_and_...

Didn't realize they were so broad in scope. The only thing I had heard of was "SMPTE codes" used in audio recording to sync up multiple multi-track recording machines, so that e.g. you could record 30 tracks using two 16-track recorders (with one track on each machine used for the sync). I never bothered to look up what SMPTE meant.

You’re likely referring to SMPTE timecode, a method of conveying timing information about a video signal (eg. HH:MM:SS:FF), which is SMPTE 12M. There are various ways that timecode is conveyed in media such as LTC (linear timecode, usually carried as an audio signal), VITC (vertical interval timecode, in the vertical blanking interval of a video signal), and others.

Re: SMPTE Makes Its Standards Freely Accessible

#96

Post by TeMPOraL »

rswail wrote: post #93
TeMPOraL wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but if you want all the other stuff (the "github based workflows") then you have to use github. Except what would you want it for? The issues and wikis and "github based workflows" are for people working on a thing, not for people using that thing or depending on it.

People that write standards and work on committees that write standards are working on a thing. SMPTE have chosen github because it has the other stuff to allow them to manage the committee work, handle the issues raised in committees, drafts, tagging different versions, dealing with the committee processes etc. They could have chosen something like JIRA, so at least we've avoided that. That's what they said in the p…

Right. But people that write standards and work on committees that write standards are going to use whatever it is that the coordinating org wants, or whatever they can agree on, and they by definition will have access to it. For everyone else, none of that is of any relevance (at least beyond the ability to listen in on the process as it happens).

Re: SMPTE Makes Its Standards Freely Accessible

#97

Post by Ekaros »

geerlingguy wrote: post #2

I don't understand why any standards body would consider not doing this as a default.

You have to fund the local national body tracking these and distribution and so on. Bigger thing back in the day of physical copies. Which involved real costs. Just imagine allowing anyone to order free paper... Only EU does that...

So then next question who should fund whole thing? Tax payers or the companies which is vast majority of users. Well self-funding organisation sounds really good for politicians. Move the costs to companies. Thus paid standards.

Re: SMPTE Makes Its Standards Freely Accessible

#98

Post by RetroTechie »

erincandescent wrote: post #87
hobofan wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that actually mean "freely" (as in beer) available, or it must be able for anyone to be procurred? I would assume that France, like many countries heavily rely on ISO standards, which in many cases cost some money. Or is it the case that those standards are not explicitly mandated, but are essentially only fulfillable by knowing the ISO standard?

When the EU legislates compliance with a standard into law, they pay the standards body for a license covering all EU residents and citizens

Giving a nice incentive for a standards body to lobby EU politicians to write their standard(s) into law proposals.

Success? Ca€€hing! (sound of cash register)

Re: SMPTE Makes Its Standards Freely Accessible

#99

Post by guerby »

this_was_posted wrote: post #89
guerby wrote: post #80

In France if a standard is mandated by law (like electrical home wiring) then it must be freely available. I assume most democracies have similar laws, it's a basic right to know what laws you should follow ...

In the Netherlands it doesn’t quite work like that in reality. There’s a whole bunch of laws that refer to norms indirectly. In theory you could meet requirements without them but in practice it is absolutely impossible.

Interesting, could you cite one such law and norm?

Re: SMPTE Makes Its Standards Freely Accessible

#100

Post by guerby »

hobofan wrote: post #81
guerby wrote: post #80

In France if a standard is mandated by law (like electrical home wiring) then it must be freely available. I assume most democracies have similar laws, it's a basic right to know what laws you should follow ...

Does that actually mean "freely" (as in beer) available, or it must be able for anyone to be procurred? I would assume that France, like many countries heavily rely on ISO standards, which in many cases cost some money. Or is it the case that those standards are not explicitly mandated, but are essentially only fulfillable by knowing the ISO standard?

In French

https://www.francenormalisation.fr/les-acteurs-de-la-normali...

If there is only knowing the norm that makes you able to follow the law that refers it then it's a "obligatory norm" and must be readable without cost.

https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/loda/article_lc/LEGIARTI00004...

List of such norms in spreadhseet linked here:

https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/contenu/menu/autour-de-la-loi...

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