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Epidurals are a miracle technology

worksinprogress.co

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Re: Epidurals are a miracle technology

#91

Anecdata, but I spoke to a mom here who declined an epidural during childbirth by choice. Her son is a champion big wave surfer.

Given that 20-90% of people don't receive one across various modern countries, I think we have enough regular data. Otherwise like 80% of Germans would be champion athletes if a no-epidural birth really did that for you.

Re: Epidurals are a miracle technology

#92
post #6

It was surprising to see incidence of death by cesarean is almost 13 per 100k. It is commonly thought as the safest way and half of all births in my country are via cesarean.

We had 3 kids, one with an epidural and induced labor and the other 2 were natural child birth, no medication at all, and my wife much preferred the natural child birth -- all of them at at a hospital "birthing center", with a five minute walk to an OR if needed. She was more present emotionally at birth, we were able to walk out of the hospital with our baby a few hours later. She was practically bedridden for a wee…

The first birth is invariably the most difficult (longer, more painful), and the most difficult to recover from regardless of epidural. You can't at all compare the experience of a second birth without an epidural to the first birth with an epidural.

Also, it can be difficult for women to remember the finer details of the pain because the hormones after birth specifically function to cause a kind of amnesia. (The hormonal effect on memory isn't unique to pregnancy or women, it's just rarely so pronounced as at child birth.)

We've had two kids, the first my wife had an epidural (after rejecting it twice before expressly demanding one unprompted), the second without. The first birth lasted, IIRC, over 20 hours at the hospital (not counting initial time spent at home), and we had long conversations with various maternity nurses and our doula about women's experience with child birth. The hospital's nurses were on strike so our nurses were from around the country with experience with all different kinds of hospitals and populations.

Re: Epidurals are a miracle technology

#93

Male scheduled for my 3rd epidural with steroids next week for on-going spinal stenosis, relieves pain for a few days, then back to pain. Will go for minimally invasive micro laminectomy next, tired of treating symptoms and not the root cause. In that procedure surgeon will remove parts of lower vertebrae that is pinching the nerve bundle, nerves that progress down each leg. Success rates of better than 70%, it's a g…

Friend, as many others are saying, you should try to avoid surgery as much as possible.

Check out moveu.com - it's cheap (and free to start if you want for their drip marketing to send you a coupon code) and full of excellent information, videos, community etc for fixing yourself. I have no affiliation - just a happy user.

Many people have been able to fix situations that the butchers (surgeons) assured them they could only treat with surgery. And there's many more who have had spinal surgery who say they're now stuck for life with a terrible situation.

Re: Epidurals are a miracle technology

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go for surgery if you have neurological symptoms (loss of sensation, motor function, etc). If its pain, try your best to avoid surgery and find the right physiotherapist to help you be pain free. Spine surgery is risky and there is a risk of cascading failures. Don't completely trust any anesthesiologist (pain management) or neurosurgeon (for surgery) or chiropractor or random folks advice to do yoga/stretch. Spend q…

I have to cautiously agree with you, with the caveat that many physios don't seem to know what they're doing either and the effectiveness of therapy can differ wildly based on which therapist and what regimen they use. Speaking as someone with a herniated disc that went through a discectomy which re-herniated immediately following surgery. Frankly I've only just now started getting relief by reducing the amount of we…

Indeed, most physiotherapists (and people in any profession) are completely useless. They don't have any understanding of the body as a system, don't investigate, and just give you some cookie cutter exercises from some app that they have.

But there are some good ones. I had one 15 years ago - a lady from Japan who was an absolute wizard. She changed my life completely - not by "doing" anything, but instead teaching me how the body actually works and helping me to awaken many dormant muscles. The closest I've found since then is moveu.com - weird guy, but he knows his stuff and has the right approach (that only we can fix ourselves, and he can only educate us on how to do so).

Re: Epidurals are a miracle technology

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife works at a leading private maternity hospital in India. I can’t yet report from personal experience, but my wife says that epidurals are normal procedure, and per the hospital’s published statistics, about 90% choosing to give birth propped up or squatting (this figure excludes C-sections, water births, and complicated cases), which implies not being in a bed for at least the last part.

No, you can squat in the hospital bed. (Source: have given birth.) I'm not sure whether this is the same in India, but in the USA most hospitals don't want you to get out of bed post-epidural because you're a fall risk which incurs legal liability.

I confirmed with my wife, a squatting delivery after epidural is not in the bed.

Re: Epidurals are a miracle technology

#96

HARD disagree. Watch “the business of being born”. We’ve turned a fairly routine extremely biologically conserved process into this insanely traumatic experience.

I rather think the problem is that births are inherently traumatic (a whole-ass little human coming out of your crotch isn't exactly all fun and games; there's a reason similar imagery is a common trope in horror movies), and we haven't put nearly enough effort into making them less so.

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Re: Epidurals are a miracle technology

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly surgeons should be paid hourly like technicians. $800/hr or something like that. For a 2 hour procedure, $1600. Another $5k for facility and support staff. Looks like medicare is on point...

I'm with you until I remember how expensive medical school plus internship is in the US. If doctors cannot pay back their student loans, it doesn't matter. The majority of folks in medical school have family that can support them now - not fixing education will make this even worse. Don't get me wrong. I support state-sponsored health care, especially after moving from the US to Norway over a decade ago. Just the pea…

> I'm with you until I remember how expensive medical school plus internship is in the US.

in that case you should double check your math, because it doesn't work out like that

> If doctors cannot pay back their student loans, it doesn't matter.

this is plain dishonesty. there have been actual discussions on how a significant number of physicians in the USA retire or semi-retire in their 50s!

Re: Epidurals are a miracle technology

#98

I've woken up from surgery with an epidural that had a leak. That wasn't fun. It made it emotionally difficult to get surgery again.

Got knee surgery with an epidural that leaked. The surgery itself went fine but the headache and nausea afterwards were absolutely brutal.

Re: Epidurals are a miracle technology

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The maker of the universe is not "one of many tens of thousands of gods". You proclaiming that your house has no architect because you read about ancient kids playing with block buildings changes nothing about the architect of your house. In computer terms, you conflate by ref with by val. An idol is by val. The maker of the universe is spoken of by ref, and not by val. Learn the difference.

By Ref can point to Null, so even as an atheist I find your argument interesting.

Since the procedure acts as a subroutine (no return value), instead of a function... Again, interesting.

Re: Epidurals are a miracle technology

#100

Male scheduled for my 3rd epidural with steroids next week for on-going spinal stenosis, relieves pain for a few days, then back to pain. Will go for minimally invasive micro laminectomy next, tired of treating symptoms and not the root cause. In that procedure surgeon will remove parts of lower vertebrae that is pinching the nerve bundle, nerves that progress down each leg. Success rates of better than 70%, it's a g…

(While it's clear you've done a ton of your own research for your own case.) Steve Kerr's advice after his own back surgery complications (albeit microdiscectomy, not a laminectomy) make me hesitant: "If you're listening out there, if you have a back problem, stay away from surgery... Rehab, rehab, rehab. Don't let anybody get in there."

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