Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Think of the children: How to force real ID for all internet traffic (2023)

nochan.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 192 posts

Re: Think of the children: How to force real ID for all internet traffic (2023)

#91

Post by hakfoo »

We lost this war when we got bamboozled into putting the V-Chip into televisions.

The obvious tradeoff was that we should have been able to have all forms of offensive and pornographic choices on the public airwaves, because we've given those who are concerned the tools to explicitly block it. (not that "unplugging the set when the parents weren't around" wasn't a viable tool already).

We never got that.

I do wonder how much of it is directly that the "won't someone think of the children" demographic is politically loud and courtable in and of itself, and how much of it has been fostered by firms that see it as a conduit for more nefarious aims (i. e. commercial social providers who want desperately for a legal CYA so they don't have to do the dance of COPPA compliance and have an incentive in the verified demographic details age attestation provides)

Re: Think of the children: How to force real ID for all internet traffic (2023)

#92

Post by weddpros »

singingtoday wrote: post #72
nodrog3000 wrote: post #32

Simple solution, Use your router to block whatever you need to, control your kids devices, the internet stays free and open. What are we talking about? There are no laws that will turn out well.

The entire point is to gain control over internet traffic. Your suggestion doesn't work because it requires people to implement it themselves and since you can't control all people, you can't control how they're going to implement it. The title "for the children" is tongue-in-cheek. It's not serious.

It amazes me how compartmented the mind of the West is: the "protector of Democracy" is barely conscient of its own lies... There is no democracy, barely an illusion of one.

Re: Think of the children: How to force real ID for all internet traffic (2023)

#93

Post by andunie »

raincole wrote: post #38
asdff wrote: post #35

What is the final defense? I suppose we create underground relay networks of radio networks within cities that allow for computers to connect directly to eachother, and from there we seed all our pirated content and discuss whatever the hell we'd like. Maybe we'd have to contend with low bandwidth when we connect outside our own city network, using larger wavelength radio to bounce off the ionosphere across the plane…

The final defense is always to change the government (one way or another). When we need to resort to technical mean we have lost.

The opposite is true.

Re: Think of the children: How to force real ID for all internet traffic (2023)

#94

Post by iamnothere »

raincole wrote: post #38
asdff wrote: post #35

What is the final defense? I suppose we create underground relay networks of radio networks within cities that allow for computers to connect directly to eachother, and from there we seed all our pirated content and discuss whatever the hell we'd like. Maybe we'd have to contend with low bandwidth when we connect outside our own city network, using larger wavelength radio to bounce off the ionosphere across the plane…

The final defense is always to change the government (one way or another). When we need to resort to technical mean we have lost.

Would-be revolutionaries need secure, reliable comms even more than the average person.

Re: Think of the children: How to force real ID for all internet traffic (2023)

#95

Post by pluralmonad »

Bender wrote: post #80
Gigachad wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there? Because we have had the last 15 years to see it isn’t working. Theres also the issue of peer pressure, it’s incredibly hard for one parent to say no to social media when every other kid has it and all the parties are arranged on Facebook. Right now telling your child they can’t have social media is crippling their ability to have a normal social life. Banning it outright means parents have a strong foundat…

That's why I suggest starting with really small children, kids that will be 13 by 2032. Starting with teens is a non starter regardless of how it is attempted in my opinion. It was a very long time ago but I recall being a teen. I could not be locked out of anything. Starting with small children is much easier and when they prove that they are mature and responsible enough then the floodgates open.

You are advocating parenting kids. So many others seem to want "policy" to raise peoples kids for them. That is a fools errand. And personally, I could not care less what some bureaucrat thinks is alright for my children or any others. Simply not their decision to make.

Re: Think of the children: How to force real ID for all internet traffic (2023)

#96

Post by incompatible »

econ wrote: post #45
orbital-decay wrote: post #2

To add to the list: KYC/AML-like regulations and practices (not necessarily financial) that shift the responsibility down the chain, outside the accountability zone, and result in preventive overly broad risk avoidance, self-censorship, and manipulation of your Overton window. See for example DMCA vs YouTube practices vs what actual channels choose to do to dodge both. Or algospeak. Or the PayPal situation which is m…

Create a government from scratch. Version control the laws. Compare the laws with all other countries. Hoard data. Write code to replace government employees and to make laws easy to implement. (If done well consider selling a product or service) Make everything modular so that the establishment can steal it. Get people involved. Doesn't matter if you need to write a sim and convince them it is a game. Pretend the wh…

There are already N governments, why would making government N+1 improve anything.

Re: Think of the children: How to force real ID for all internet traffic (2023)

#97

Post by pluralmonad »

paytonjjones wrote: post #77
Bender wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They need to be informed there are options that do not involve giving their information and their children's information to shady vendors.

It's a collective action problem. The psychological impacts come from secondary network effects. The studies suggest that taking social media away from just your kid doesn't do anything, because the culture wherever they go will still be driven by it. So the only way I can protect my kids from it is to pass laws to force other parents' hands.

It is not necessary to dump our kids into institutions to be raised by their peers. It is necessary that you don't make decisions for other peoples kids.

Re: Think of the children: How to force real ID for all internet traffic (2023)

#98

Post by latentsea »

asdff wrote: post #35

What is the final defense? I suppose we create underground relay networks of radio networks within cities that allow for computers to connect directly to eachother, and from there we seed all our pirated content and discuss whatever the hell we'd like. Maybe we'd have to contend with low bandwidth when we connect outside our own city network, using larger wavelength radio to bounce off the ionosphere across the plane…

The final defense is to stop having children. Then there's no one to think of.

Re: Think of the children: How to force real ID for all internet traffic (2023)

#99

Post by DaSHacka »

0x00C0FFEE wrote: post #85
bluefirebrand wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Only if you're fine with disenfranchising voters I don't love disenfranchising voters but I think it's probably better than allowing elections to be vulnerable to foreign tampering, don't you think?

That’s a false dichotomy. Better practices for election security can be implemented without disenfranchising voters.

Disenfranchising the entire populace by nature of ID verification to use the internet naturally includes voters as well.
Post reply on HN