Makes sense. The ECC in consumer line is what created an entire market for use in inexpensive web hosting.
Then AMD created their EPYC variants, and it wasn’t clear what the difference was between the consumer & Epyc models.
AMD silently removes memory encryption from consumer Ryzen CPUs
91–100 of 225 posts
Re: AMD silently removes memory encryption from consumer Ryzen CPUs
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you ever had to use an iPhone that would just shut off randomly with like 30% battery "remaining", you'd probably be singing a different tune and appreciative your device became somewhat more usable with the changes.
I'd expect the battery charge estimation to be recalibrated to account for the reduced capacity, not the hardware being deliberately hobbled to hide it.
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Re: AMD silently removes memory encryption from consumer Ryzen CPUs
#93This was never marketed as a feature of the consumer CPUs and if some malignant actor does get physical access to my (consumer) hardware, then them being able to read out bytes through cryo-freezing the RAM really isn't high up on the list of things I'm going to worry about.
Reminds me of that Seinfeld episode where George tries to move a Frogger arcade machine without powering it off in order to not lose his high score leaderboard. https://youtu.be/5etwHVarNgI?t=256
From a few years ago:
> Five guys moving a server to a new datacenter without shutting it down. Without cutting it off from the internet. And as using a car would have been too easy, they used public transport.
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQ5MA685ApE (DE audio, EN subs)
See also perhaps:
> The HotPlug allows hot seizure and removal of computers from the field to anywhere else. The HotPlug's patented technology keeps power flowing to the computer while transferring the computer's power input from one A/C source (such as a wall outlet or power strip) to another (a portable UPS) and back again.
* https://shop.digistor.com/products/hotplug-field-kit
* 2007 potato-quality demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erq4TO_a3z8&
Re: AMD silently removes memory encryption from consumer Ryzen CPUs
#94If my memory serves me correctly, this feature was never marketed by AMD for these CPUs and was unstable.
The only mistake AMD potentially made here is not being transparent why it was disabled.
Re: AMD silently removes memory encryption from consumer Ryzen CPUs
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
Many many people use consumer CPUs for gaming servers.
So reading between the lines, you're saying it's bad for AMD to disable undocumented features because people still might have bought them for those undocumented features, particularly for gaming servers?
I can't even think of what benefit memory encryption has for gaming servers?
Re: AMD silently removes memory encryption from consumer Ryzen CPUs
#96This sort of shenanigan is why it’s important to have a competitive market for CPUs.
it's exactly why we're not allowed a competitive market for CPUs we could all be burning our own tiny ~300nm feature size ICs at home for around the price of a blu ray burner and a dark room setup. Our silicon limitations are not for a lack of hardware, but rather a lack of freedom.
> a lack of freedom
> ~300nm feature size
Can you point to a specific regulation that prevents me from crafting shitty semiconductors in my shed? I am pretty sure there are entire YouTube channels dedicated to this.
Re: AMD silently removes memory encryption from consumer Ryzen CPUs
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
Transparent communication would have been appreciated nonetheless. You have customers not just lawyers on the other side, it's not just about making sure you're legally covered.
Let me give you an analogy: If you e.g. figure out some undocumented endpoints for a REST API, which are intended for internal use only, and started using them, do you expect the developers to inform you about changes? As far as AMD is concerned, this was never supported, nor documented. Now pulling the rug with a firmware update isn't a very nice thing to do, but maybe they've had some actual reason for that beyond…
> As far as AMD is concerned, this was never supported, nor documented.
Maybe this is the only thing that concerned them but not the only thing they knew very well. AMD knew that this was widely used by consumers and that every motherboard manufacturer exposed the option to the user. They pulled the rug legally, knowing that all those many people standing on the rug will fall on their ass.
Re: AMD silently removes memory encryption from consumer Ryzen CPUs
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
This feature was off by default in all the mobos I've seen. It causes many stability issues, as to my experience. The attack is sophisticated, Mr.Nobody, generally, should not worry about expensive cryogenic attacks - three letter guys would extract your key with a wrench. I mean the change is bad - it undermines already damaged trust, but the "average Joe" is extremely unlikely to be affected directly. There are man…
Unless you live in North Korea, China, Russia, UK, France, Australia or Ireland it’s still illegal to coerce or force someone to give up their personal keys or passwords, so this feature is still useful against some law-bound adversaries in free countries.
Well, I live in Ireland but not sure what you refer to.
Something being illegal does not imply it doesn't happen though.
Re: AMD silently removes memory encryption from consumer Ryzen CPUs
#99This was never marketed as a feature of the consumer CPUs and if some malignant actor does get physical access to my (consumer) hardware, then them being able to read out bytes through cryo-freezing the RAM really isn't high up on the list of things I'm going to worry about.
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Re: AMD silently removes memory encryption from consumer Ryzen CPUs
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
This feature was off by default in all the mobos I've seen. It causes many stability issues, as to my experience. The attack is sophisticated, Mr.Nobody, generally, should not worry about expensive cryogenic attacks - three letter guys would extract your key with a wrench. I mean the change is bad - it undermines already damaged trust, but the "average Joe" is extremely unlikely to be affected directly. There are man…
>It causes many stability issues, as to my experience In my experience it very much does not, ram instability with this feature indicates a hardware issue same as with ECC. >Mr.Nobody, generally, should not worry about expensive cryogenic attacks - three letter guys would extract your key with a wrench. This is disingenuous framing. There exist valid threat models for average people between thieves and three letter a…
Well, I've experimented with this feature on several platforms (both ECC and non-ECC) starting with TRX40, most of the times I've been just getting hard freezes at GPU driver initialization. If it boots - it usually hangs when a VFIO VM spins up.