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Zen and the Art of Machine Learning Research

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Re: Zen and the Art of Machine Learning Research

#91

Post by oliculipolicula »

jdw64 wrote: post #10
peepee1982 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similarly, the Western idea of Stoicism seems to focus mostly on controlling or even suppressing your emotions (at least on surface level), while the Stoicism you rightly call "Roman" (thanks for that, btw) is much more holistic and more of an ethical framework.

Thank you for letting me know correctly.

Greek Stoicism (no quotes) is more positive.

  ὁ ἀγαθὸς ἀνὴρ [ἀδιάπτωτος καὶ] ἀδιάσειστος

  The good man (agathos aner, man who acts for the benefit of others) is [infallible and] unshakeable.
--Epictetus, whose name sounds "Roman", just like "Stoa" doesn't

This can be (plausibly) used to describe Sam Altman, for example

Re: Zen and the Art of Machine Learning Research

#92

Post by slater »

oliculipolicula wrote: post #91
jdw64 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for letting me know correctly.

Greek Stoicism (no quotes) is more positive. ὁ ἀγαθὸς ἀνὴρ [ἀδιάπτωτος καὶ] ἀδιάσειστος The good man (agathos aner, man who acts for the benefit of others) is [infallible and] unshakeable. --Epictetus, whose name sounds "Roman", just like "Stoa" doesn't This can be (plausibly) used to describe Sam Altman, for example

Sam Altman is a good man...?

Re: Zen and the Art of Machine Learning Research

#93

Post by oliculipolicula »

slater wrote: post #92
oliculipolicula wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Greek Stoicism (no quotes) is more positive. ὁ ἀγαθὸς ἀνὴρ [ἀδιάπτωτος καὶ] ἀδιάσειστος The good man (agathos aner, man who acts for the benefit of others) is [infallible and] unshakeable. --Epictetus, whose name sounds "Roman", just like "Stoa" doesn't This can be (plausibly) used to describe Sam Altman, for example

Sam Altman is a good man...?

Does he not act for the benefit of shareholders (in the best possible future, at least)

Rate-limited edit: my (evasive?) answer was that Stoics were careful enough not to use the word "good", but the more subtle, one might accuse utilitarian, "agathos" in that scenario

Should I interest you in the needle's eye left for cybernetic* shareholders?

*Neither fully machine, nor fully human, nor even monolithic, but definitely no camel, bc camel, unlike horse, can survive anywhere and were once native to the USA (arguably)

Re: Zen and the Art of Machine Learning Research

#94

Post by oliculipolicula »

jdw64 wrote: post #89
galaxyLogic wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zen I believe is about meditation where thoughts quiet down and you experience the moment. When you do, it means your brain gets rest because it is not "chasing thoughts". And that means when you stop the mediation you brain is well-rested and can work better because it can focus much better, the runaway thoughts are not leading it astray continually. That means your brain, and you, can accomplish more. It is probabl…

It's hard to explain, but I think it's similar. At its core, it's usually expressed like this: Bù lì wén zì[Bulipmunja] (不立文字): The truth of enlightenment cannot be fully expressed through language or written words. Jiào wài bié chuán[Gyoebyeoljeon] (敎外別傳): A separate transmission of truth outside the scriptures, not something acquired through formal teaching. Zhí zhǐ rén xīn[Jikjiinsim] (直指人心): Without relying on an…

Bulipmunja reminiscent of Taoist precept （得意忘言 forget words grok idea ）

Not surprising, ultimately original Zens was attempt to snthesize Daoism, Buddhism, and String Theory*.

*[魏晉] 玄學

Re: Zen and the Art of Machine Learning Research

#95

Post by slater »

oliculipolicula wrote: post #93
slater wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sam Altman is a good man...?

Does he not act for the benefit of shareholders (in the best possible future, at least) Rate-limited edit: my (evasive?) answer was that Stoics were careful enough not to use the word "good", but the more subtle, one might accuse utilitarian, "agathos" in that scenario Should I interest you in the needle's eye left for cybernetic* shareholders? *Neither fully machine, nor fully human, nor even monolithic, but definit…

I don't know, I asked if he's a good man

Re: Zen and the Art of Machine Learning Research

#96

Post by Stefan-H »

josephg wrote: post #90
Stefan-H wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might need to inspect the etymology of that word and take a look at where the concept is rooted.

I assume you’re snipping about stoicism being Greek not Roman? I’d appreciate if you just say what you mean. I’m not your student. I’m not accepting homework assignments from a random internet commenter.

No, my apologies, I actually mis-attributed the etymology of stoic to a group that did identify with reduced emotionality, but yes, out of Greece. That’s not how the snipe was intended.

Re: Zen and the Art of Machine Learning Research

#97

Post by exabrial »

On a similar note, I think it's pretty hilarious (short sighted) of Anthropic to have open hiring positions, but ban the use of it's product for... frontier model research.

Where do you think these people are going to come from?

Rash decision, and will likely draw an anti-competitive lawsuit at some point.

Re: Zen and the Art of Machine Learning Research

#98

Post by kilpikaarna »

colechristensen wrote: post #64
jdw64 wrote: post #4

I feel that the Zen used in the West and the Zen in East Asia are quite different. I think the Western Zen is probably the one from the 1970s book Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. It usually carries a sense of equanimity and beginner's mind. But in East Asia, Zen actually emphasizes aimlessness or non‑purposefulness. The point where I really feel the difference is that Western Zen seems to be about how to t…

Do non-westerners do this? Go through lengthy "it's not this it's that" explanations trying to display superior knowledge of what the real genuine thing from somebody else's culture is? Any time some topic of some asian culture that has been shared into america comes up this sort of thing dominates the discussion.

Sounds a bit like a holdover from a long history of monotheism, so I think westerners might be predisposed to this, yes.

Re: Zen and the Art of Machine Learning Research

#99

Post by kilpikaarna »

jjssmith wrote: post #87

> One really impressive thing about OpenAI is that most of the people running the company (on the technical side, at least) are under 35. Many of the important decisionmakers behind chatGPT are under 30. During Gold Rush most 49ers were under 25, so there's still room for improvement! [Continuing the analogy, you may find that many AI heroes are just those who happened to be closer to pools of TPUs and GPUs in the ea…

> [Continuing the analogy, you may find that many AI heroes are just those who happened to be closer to pools of TPUs and GPUs in the early days...]

And this in turn was much more likely if you were inexplicably obsessed with ML/AI at a point when it was widely considered unfashionable.

Re: Zen and the Art of Machine Learning Research

#100

Post by nixon_why69 »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #47
jdw64 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to know quite a lot about the East. Buddhism and Taoism are a bit different, of course, but your understanding is largely in line with how Eastern popular thought actually sees things. It seems like you've done a fair amount of business with Easterners.

After watching how much the east misunderstands western religion (i.e. Neon Genesis Evangelion), there's no benefit to "actually understanding" the religions of the east. They make little effort to understand western religion in their popular media, so why should we do it for them? As far as I'm concerned, Lisa Simpson is the quintessential Buddhist and will remain that way until Japan proves they understand what the…

Being proud of not knowing stuff is a bad look.
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