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The Cypherpunk Library

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Re: The Cypherpunk Library

#91

Post by SmirkingRevenge »

t-3 wrote: post #58
SmirkingRevenge wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the anti-establishment impulse taken to extremes. Anarchism is one of the niche destinations of that mindset. Another, ironically, is full blown communism. What's sort of funny, is how all these seemingly polar-opposite anti-establishment flavors are actually far closer to each other than they are to mainstream political left or right. The anti-establishment part ends up overriding everything else That's how you…

How is it ironic? Anarchists were a big part of the First International and left-anarchists can usually be considered to be socialists. They are not polar opposites, rather communism and (left-)anarchism are the statist and republican/federalist (loosely authoritarian and libertarian) expressions of the same underlying ideology of human equality.

Ah interesting history there, thanks. Maybe I'm using the term incorrectly

The continuum I was picturing is: big central planning government little-to-no government (anarchy)

In any case, I guess I'm just restating a version of the old horseshoe theory

Re: The Cypherpunk Library

#92

Post by jancsika »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #64
Caracas288 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea is it wouldn’t work on trust, each element would be bounded by forces other than a single structure; getting to the state in which self-regulation is possible is the difficult, or maybe impossible, part. When in the regulated state, power grabs wouldn’t work.

The way they would self-regulate (self-organize) is into tribes/gangs. And that works (for some value of "works") until one tribe/gang becomes too powerful.

> The way they would self-regulate (self-organize) is into tribes/gangs.

I assume you mean "gang" in the sense of, "Hey honey, a non-rivalrous gang converted this luxury hotel into a mutual aid hospital, let's go get that rash looked at."

If not, your assertion is at odds with what Orwell described in Homage to Catalonia.

I'm not even a fan of anarchism, but I am a fan of reading about these things.

Re: The Cypherpunk Library

#93

Post by jancsika »

kibwen wrote: post #34
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the thing I don't understand about (a superficial interpretation of) anarchists; while governments are often not ideal, a lack of one wouldn't be better. And trusting people to self-organize is idealistic, but in practice it'd mean we go back to tribalism and "might makes right".

I get the impression that even the definition of "anarchy" itself is subject to anarchy, with lots of disagreements and infighting. The more even-keeled anarchists that I've seen stress that they're not against hierarchies, only involuntary hierarchies, with the idea being that individuals should be welcome to organize themselves into hierarchies into which they delegate power, as long as that power can be revoked at…

> as long as that power can be revoked at any time

I understand the idea that "justice delayed is justice denied." But within reasonable governance time-frames for a municipality/region, why would revocation latency be a litmus test for the type of governance model?

This just sounds like an implementation detail masquerading as a philosophical ideal.

Re: The Cypherpunk Library

#94

Post by DonHopkins »

chimpanzee2 wrote: post #45
my_throwaway23 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps unrelated, but that reminds me of the inevitable avalanche of identical replies to every submission on aphantasia, all proclaiming that, no, they do indeed find it odd that there are people who can visualise internally. Do you enjoy watching movies or series, reading comics? Going to the theatre (as in - not movies, but actual theatre)? Edit: Do note that I wrote enjoy - I've certainly read my fair share of n…

> Do you enjoy watching movies or series, reading comics? Going to the theatre (as in - not movies, but actual theatre)? I really for the most part do not. I've not even seen any of the big oscar winning pieces everyone keeps talking about. As I said to another commentator on here as well: Without any disdain, I cannot bring myself to watch hours of another person's fantasy, when I could instead be shaping my own rea…

As long as you're so good at shaping reality, could you please do something about the fascist takeover of the US government?

Re: The Cypherpunk Library

#95

Post by DonHopkins »

chimpanzee2 wrote: post #41
nilamo wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no understanding of your viewpoint. I wish I did, it sounds interesting. I do like a Crafting Interpreters or Mythical Man Month... But I don't understand how those could not only be held to the same level as The Hobbit, but that you seem incapable of even reading Animal Farm. Do you enjoy any fictional media? TV, movies, plays, interactive murder mystery dinners, tabletop games (d&d, etc)?

> Do you enjoy any fictional media? TV, movies, plays, interactive murder mystery dinners, tabletop games (d&d, etc)? Nope, I truly live under a rock when it comes to those. I've been wanting to watch the big ones (Hobbit, LotR, ...), but – and I say this with no disdain: I simply cannot get myself to consume hours upon hours of somebody else's fantasy – when I could instead be shaping my own reality .

By "shaping my own reality" do you mean taking hallucinogenic drugs?

Re: The Cypherpunk Library

#96

Post by bushwart »

spidey1 wrote: post #89
glitchc wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to read better non-fiction then. Take history for example. Certain real events are more fascinating than any fictional story, and the right author can take you on an unforgettable journey, unfolding the world as it developed.

do you have any recommendations?

In Stahlgewittern by Ernst Jünger, there should be an English translation.

Re: The Cypherpunk Library

#97

Post by slybot »

observationist wrote: post #69
slybot wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funnily, this small library features works outside of it's domain, including a manifesto from PKK terrorist organization leader..

https://www.cypherpunkbooks.com/book/definition-of-democrati... The book in question. What was the intent or purpose of coming at this sideways?

This is a work written by the terrorist organization leader after incarcerated on 1999. While this carefully selected piece doesn't, the larger work of five volumes named "Manifesto of the Democratic Civilization" goes into the manifestation of his terrorist movement.

Re: The Cypherpunk Library

#98

Post by Caracas288 »

jancsika wrote: post #92
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way they would self-regulate (self-organize) is into tribes/gangs. And that works (for some value of "works") until one tribe/gang becomes too powerful.

> The way they would self-regulate (self-organize) is into tribes/gangs. I assume you mean "gang" in the sense of, "Hey honey, a non-rivalrous gang converted this luxury hotel into a mutual aid hospital, let's go get that rash looked at." If not, your assertion is at odds with what Orwell described in Homage to Catalonia . I'm not even a fan of anarchism, but I am a fan of reading about these things.

This is an interesting subject; would you recommend any other books? For someone with very little knowledge of things like this.

Re: The Cypherpunk Library

#99

Post by slybot »

kgwxd wrote: post #84
slybot wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funnily, this small library features works outside of it's domain, including a manifesto from PKK terrorist organization leader..

They call themselves "PKK Terrorist Organization"?

They do call themselves, "Partiya Karkerên Kurdistanê" (PKK) which literally means Kurdish Workers Party. It doesn't mean whether they call themselves terrorist or not; USA, UK, EU, NATO and many others call that way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan_Workers%27_Party

Re: The Cypherpunk Library

#100

Post by slybot »

danubis wrote: post #50
slybot wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funnily, this small library features works outside of it's domain, including a manifesto from PKK terrorist organization leader..

Did you read it?

Yes, did you? Anything Cypher, punk or cypherpunk inside that you can point out?
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