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How do you design a $30k electric pickup? Inside Ford's skunkworks

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Re: How do you design a $30k electric pickup? Inside Ford's skunkworks

#91

Post by CalRobert »

wongarsu wrote: post #88
CalRobert wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds similar to the lamentations of American buyers who want Japanese kei trucks. It’s protectionism all the way down I guess. Though I see tons of US pickup trucks in the Netherlands, and have seen even lifted ones in Germany too for that matter.

In Germany it's mostly US service members and their families who drive US pickup trucks. They can ship personal vehicles to Germany without having to make them fully compliant with German regulations, and generally seem to like them Away from US bases, pickup trucks are very rare in Germany. The closest thing you will see are 3-ton flatbed trucks as work vehicles, or something like a VW Transporter. But generally tra…

Despite failing to meet EU safety rules, they can be imported under Individual Vehicle Approval - """ The use of IVA for so-called ‘off-road’ vehicles (N1G) has more than doubled since 2019, rising from 2,900 new registrations in that year to 6,800 in 2022, with Dodge Ram pick-up trucks accounting for approx 60% of IVAs in this category over these four years, 2019 to 2022 """

https://etsc.eu/concerns-over-loopholes-allowing-american-pi...

Anyway, my point was that you can buy American trucks in Europe right now, so op may be able to get this $30k Ford.

For what it's worth, I have a big soft spot for trucks with long beds and normal-height hoods! Something like a Chevy S10 or 90's Tacoma is really useful! I just don't like biking with my kids by drivers who can't seem them.

Re: How do you design a $30k electric pickup? Inside Ford's skunkworks

#92

Post by fanatic2pope »

graemep wrote: post #26
vsgherzi wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is concerned about Chinese EVs taking over the market. For good reason they’re not happy bad and they’re extremely cheap. I’m no economist nor moralist so I can’t say if banning Chinese evs are the right move or not but I can understand the US wanting to try to create its own market before getting destroyed by the competitor. I don’t think it’s fair to say that speaks to the quality of the US alternatives. The…

There is a national security and sovereignty issue that the European countries (and others) not facing - its similar to dependence on American clouds etc. A lot of these vehicles rely on OTA updates or are controlled through apps. This essentially means the manufacturer controls them. Imagine the consequences if half the vehicles in your country stopped working, or became unsafe? Do you really want to hand this power…

This type of concern could be ameliorated through the proper application of consumer protection laws concerning privacy and the right to modify and repair the things we own. The US doesn't want China to be able to spy on drivers because the US wants to be able to spy on drivers, which is why the proposed "solution" to your concerns is to simply ban Chinese cars. It's not about privacy or protecting consumers, it's about deciding which wolf gets to eat the sheep.

Re: How do you design a $30k electric pickup? Inside Ford's skunkworks

#93

Post by CalRobert »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #68
CalRobert wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds similar to the lamentations of American buyers who want Japanese kei trucks. It’s protectionism all the way down I guess. Though I see tons of US pickup trucks in the Netherlands, and have seen even lifted ones in Germany too for that matter.

> American buyers who want Japanese kei trucks. It is crazy when I hear people say they want to drive a kei truck on American roads. American SUVs and trucks are enormous in both height and weight. The kei truck does not offer the necessary crash protection.

But... I'm allowed to walk, bike, or ride a motorcycle on American streets...

Re: How do you design a $30k electric pickup? Inside Ford's skunkworks

#94

Post by orwin »

formerly_proven wrote: post #87
pjc50 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something I've been trying to articulate for a while is that the EV revolution is a smaller version of the phone and internet revolutions: it requires a bunch of infrastructure buildout, but it's also the result of individual consumer choices. And it's highly synergistic. But along with that, it will create "losers", existing companies whose business can't adapt to the new ways. Sears had a hundred-year start on Amaz…

> I think this is a serious problem in existing car companies. They attach too much prestige and career to being "petrolheads", or simply working in the engine division; after all, that's the most expensive to develop and least easy to substitute part of the car. The EV transition threatens to sweep that all away. Probably most of the EU manufacturers won't really get on board until those people retire. You speak as-…

I think e-tron have some success. As do Renault (and Nissan) despite Gohsn insistence on not building on it (goshn was a very successful manager and finance engineer, but people should understand he destroyed R&D at Nissan, Renault and Alpine, killing any chance at success they had despite their leg up on electric car)

Re: How do you design a $30k electric pickup? Inside Ford's skunkworks

#96

Post by kotaKat »

Markoff wrote: post #36
jf wrote: post #5

Slate seems closer to shipping a ~$30k electric pickup: https://www.slate.auto

I will believe when I see it, until then it's just vaporware, let's see the price if they ship at all by the end of 2026/beginning 2027 maybe.

We'll know the price in two more weeks. I'm yolo'ing it and I can't wait for my little orange-wrapped pickup.

So far their manufacturing and progress videos are quite impressive. The fact there's 25-50+ basically production-ready prototypes if not more now driving around their factory and doing testing compared to most of the other vaporware companies out there has me holding out strong.

(How many Elios are out there doing testing? How many TELOs? Oof.)

Re: How do you design a $30k electric pickup? Inside Ford's skunkworks

#97

Post by Markoff »

kotaKat wrote: post #96
Markoff wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will believe when I see it, until then it's just vaporware, let's see the price if they ship at all by the end of 2026/beginning 2027 maybe.

We'll know the price in two more weeks. I'm yolo'ing it and I can't wait for my little orange-wrapped pickup. So far their manufacturing and progress videos are quite impressive. The fact there's 25-50+ basically production-ready prototypes if not more now driving around their factory and doing testing compared to most of the other vaporware companies out there has me holding out strong. (How many Elios are out there…

producing 25-50 prototypes and launching mass production are two very different things

edit: just for the record I am their fan and wishing them well, but I am too old for fairy tales unless the product is in market

Re: How do you design a $30k electric pickup? Inside Ford's skunkworks

#98

Post by kotaKat »

Markoff wrote: post #97
kotaKat wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We'll know the price in two more weeks. I'm yolo'ing it and I can't wait for my little orange-wrapped pickup. So far their manufacturing and progress videos are quite impressive. The fact there's 25-50+ basically production-ready prototypes if not more now driving around their factory and doing testing compared to most of the other vaporware companies out there has me holding out strong. (How many Elios are out there…

producing 25-50 prototypes and launching mass production are two very different things edit: just for the record I am their fan and wishing them well, but I am too old for fairy tales unless the product is in market

I meaaaaan... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QF_qGEzm0JA - definitely a lot further than either of those ;)

Re: How do you design a $30k electric pickup? Inside Ford's skunkworks

#99

Post by pjc50 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #73
pjc50 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something I've been trying to articulate for a while is that the EV revolution is a smaller version of the phone and internet revolutions: it requires a bunch of infrastructure buildout, but it's also the result of individual consumer choices. And it's highly synergistic. But along with that, it will create "losers", existing companies whose business can't adapt to the new ways. Sears had a hundred-year start on Amaz…

> Jack Welch's "destroy your business dot com" What is this?

Difficult to find references other than my own memory and this paywalled Economist article: https://www.economist.com/special/1999/09/16/dybcom

Re: How do you design a $30k electric pickup? Inside Ford's skunkworks

#100

Post by pjc50 »

formerly_proven wrote: post #87
pjc50 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something I've been trying to articulate for a while is that the EV revolution is a smaller version of the phone and internet revolutions: it requires a bunch of infrastructure buildout, but it's also the result of individual consumer choices. And it's highly synergistic. But along with that, it will create "losers", existing companies whose business can't adapt to the new ways. Sears had a hundred-year start on Amaz…

> I think this is a serious problem in existing car companies. They attach too much prestige and career to being "petrolheads", or simply working in the engine division; after all, that's the most expensive to develop and least easy to substitute part of the car. The EV transition threatens to sweep that all away. Probably most of the EU manufacturers won't really get on board until those people retire. You speak as-…

> Consumers do not buy EVs anywhere near the expected volume

OK so the billion Euro question is: why not? Tesla seem to be making adequate sales in Europe. China has passed 50% EVs as new sales. Norway (in Europe, but not the EU) is approaching 100%.

Is it simply price? Of the car, and/or electricity?

The EU was originally proposing to phase out ICE in 2035, which is now less than 10 years away!

> compliance car EVs (i.e. their "let's stuff a 50 kWh gross battery

I had noticed that all the Stellantis EVs have desperately bad range. I guess that's why they're showing up for cheap leasing offers to meet compliance.

But that's what I mean. It's an intentionally half-assed product. Only the recent Renault 5 and VW ID series cars feel like serious market entrants rather than "will this do?"

BYD and Tesla are popular in the UK, but not EU manufacturers. Why? Product? Price?

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