Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How liminalism became the defining aesthetic

hyperallergic.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 117 posts

Re: How liminalism became the defining aesthetic

#91

Post by idiotsecant »

mystraline wrote: post #60
4bpp wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I'm slightly projecting my European sensitivities here, but I think there is more going on there than just the emptiness. There is a common theme that the spaces depicted are, on their own, quite unpleasant (barren, made from flimsy materials, probably emitting some amount of toxic fumes); it's just that this unpleasantness is normally masked by their human use and interpretation, which invariably some form of…

I get and agree with what youre saying. Its the combination of capitalism and lowest bidder architecture that is alienating to humans. And if humans are present, makes the space tolerable. Remove the humans, and the space is off-putting, eerie and has a sense of dread. And yeah, brutalism (usage of concrete as primary architecture) is also seen in the USA. And frankly, most of the buildings feel like prisons, and not…

It's unfashionable but I still love brutalist architecture. It feels stable, like it would still be there whether it had people in it or not. Like living in a cave.

Re: How liminalism became the defining aesthetic

#92

Post by saltcured »

sidewndr46 wrote: post #77
4bpp wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I'm slightly projecting my European sensitivities here, but I think there is more going on there than just the emptiness. There is a common theme that the spaces depicted are, on their own, quite unpleasant (barren, made from flimsy materials, probably emitting some amount of toxic fumes); it's just that this unpleasantness is normally masked by their human use and interpretation, which invariably some form of…

This is more or less my thoughts as well. Walking around the exterior of Nymphenburg Palace even when empty would not be very emotional at all. Walking around a modern suburban development devoid of people, houses, pets, etc. would be at least unusual in the feeling. The spaces are intentionally designed to put people and their things within obvious boundaries. With the boundaries still there but lacking the things w…

There are layers to that suburban setting and I wonder which ones you imagine.

There actually used to be this "empty suburb" feeling at many times per day when a typical bedroom community had sent its kids to school and parent to work. Particularly when they were not wealthy enough to have paid laborers around doing things during their work day. If anything, they got busier since COVID as people have more varied schedules.

Then there is the new but incomplete development, e.g. with graded lots and some subset of streets and walkways. If work is suspended for some reason, it may be decorated with idled earth movers, piles of building materials, or partial foundations or framing.

Or it might turn into the next type, which is an aborted subdivision build or after a severe wildfire, which is basically a moonscape of graded lots with no buildings nor vegetation.

Then there are the abandoned neighborhoods that were once vibrant. Old, decrepit buildings, and wild vegetation, e.g. around dead industrial towns.

Re: How liminalism became the defining aesthetic

#94

Post by sph »

cyber_kinetist wrote: post #70
Jordan-117 wrote: post #24

There's an interesting connection to draw between liminal spaces (especially the Backrooms variety) and the "latent space" concept from AI, both mechanically and sociologically. Basically, generative AI is an industrial-scale blend of almost every image and concept in human history, and within the labyrinthine, uninterpretable neural networks that power it, you can "find" every conceivable combination of objects, sty…

I feel that generative AI is the culmination of Baudrillard and Mark Fisher's thesis. The world we live in is already dead, and we are wandering with its ghosts. After capitalism strips everything off its materiality and leaves only with its symbols, only the nostalgia for a non-existent past remains.

> I feel that generative AI is the culmination of Baudrillard and Mark Fisher's thesis.

To expand: I strongly recommend Mark Fisher's Capitalist Realism book for a critical read of everything that's wrong with modern capitalism, and how any alternative, however radical it might be, will likely end up become incorporated, and digested, and regurgitated by corporate entities for profit. GenAI is the avatar of this entire process.

Re: How liminalism became the defining aesthetic

#95

Post by floatingatoll »

Years and years ago, I took a photo set of the Santa Cruz boardwalk and all of its beautifully painted buildings and rides, in the middle of January when it was completely and utterly devoid of people. I think I encountered one person the entire visit. I was thrilled because it let me add a second album to my collection of “places that are gorgeous and deserve photographs taken of them without all those annoying people in the way”, and I celebrated the reactions from people. Which were, more or less, that is was incredibly weird to see it portrayed in perfectly normal lighting and color and tone, but missing the one thing that everyone takes for granted: passersby.

Anyways, I reawoke this old dead account (I have since changed names everywhere, here too) so I can link the album and talk about it. Not because I care about appreciation of my photos, but because as an early adopter of the trend, I found it was possible to create the eeriness of today’s ’liminal spaces’ without the ‘lifeless’ characteristics of the Backrooms, House of Leaves, an so on. It’s a lot easier to create that feeling with decay, with monotonality, with cookie-cutter cubicle mazes; and, the theory tends to connect with people more readily as plausible if you include ‘rotted by time and age’ to justify the emptiness as Horizon Zero Dawn and Last of Is both lovingly demonstrated.

But at the core of all of this modern liminal, is portraying human-dense spaces as human-zero, and then confronting the eternal question that haunts humanity: “What happens in the dark forest when no humans are observing?” Whether it’s a cubicle maze or a carnival ride, as the world grows more and more crowded and lonely, it’s no wonder that we want to spy on our busiest spaces after we’ve all gone home for the day. What do they get up to? Where did all the people go? Is this merely a painting of a screaming person on a wall, or is this space empty because they were consumed?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/floatingatoll/albums/721576328...

Re: How liminalism became the defining aesthetic

#96

Post by antonvs »

mystraline wrote: post #56
antonvs wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s just one group of elitists slap-fighting another. Are we really supposed to take seriously that “liminalism is the defining aesthetic of our time”? > This is not the language of an elitist. It absolutely is. Someone claiming to tell you what is “important”, what is “truly democratic”, in contradiction to “traditional” structures is elitism at its most insufferable.

It is definitely that. But the art critics also use very loaded terms and such to also confuse any discussion. That language is also used to identify the 'in' crowd too. Examples: "Emptied of stores and absent of humans, Columbus’s photograph captures the melancholic discomfort of liminal aesthetics — the strange, simultaneous pull of disquiet and nostalgia that makes this bottom-up, crowd-curated digital movement am…

I studied art up to the first year of university, until discovering that academically, it wasn't for me. Family friends were also working artists (and one cartoonist!), so I'm not unfamiliar with the world.

There's plenty of art criticism and analysis that I can get on board with. But the "liminal" craze seems like just that to me: a fad that appeals to some people because of its mysteriousness, and so on. It has no real broader significance. Just because someone identified an aesthetic with a term doesn't turn it into something more significant.

It's as if someone identified the "spooky" aesthetic and started talking about the X-Files and Blair Witch (dating myself) as examples of high spooky art. I suppose one can make a case for it, but so what? It's just... pointless.

Re: How liminalism became the defining aesthetic

#98

Post by no-name-here »

idiotsecant wrote: post #90
no-name-here wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the abandonment of places that should be filled with life a defining aspect of today? Which places? Malls & COVID? I guess they exist but are they especially prevalent today?

Yes, a lot of public spaces are dying or dead. If you don't have these spaces in your area you are certainly the only exception.

> a lot of public spaces are dying or dead

How are you quantifying that? Is there somewherei can go to read about it?

Re: How liminalism became the defining aesthetic

#99

Post by zem »

mistersquid wrote: post #86
esperent wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Language as she is spoke" is very often at odds with literal dictionary definitions. So you're right that a liminal space is a transitional space, and that a metro is by definition that. But linimal aesthetic is different, especially as has recently become popular. It means a space that gives you that feeling of being between, of emptiness, introspection. A metro station absolutely does not have this aesthetic, exce…

> But linimal aesthetic is different, especially as has recently become popular. Your articulation of a liminal aesthetic hits upon the tension inherit in the word “liminal”. By definition “liminal” signals “in between” which connotes an unsettledness or indeterminacy, or what in other realms is called the uncanny. This liminal aesthetic, at its core, is shot through with a sense of the uncanny, and empty devoid spac…

I think even the busiest airport terminal does retain a liminal feel, because the entire time you spend in it you are being palpably funneled along, with enough attendant unpleasantness to keep you in a state of constantly waiting to get a move on. in train terminals you are a lot more self motivated.

Re: How liminalism became the defining aesthetic

#100

Post by nandomrumber »

HeartStrings wrote: post #41
nandomrumber wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Liminal dreaming. Ain’t never heard that before, sounds like pseudoscience woo-woo to me. The proper term is hypnagogia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnagogia

Not voovoo. Tested, works. Used by Lynch and Dali to inspire dreamlike works. Used by Edison to aid solving complex problems https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/thomas-edisons-na... Studies showed better math solving after hypnogagia state: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8654287/ https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abj5866

Did you even read beyond the my second paragraph?
Post reply on HN