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Let's celebrate work that is 100% human-made

human-made.work

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Re: Let's celebrate work that is 100% human-made

#91

Post by piloto_ciego »

sublinear wrote: post #80
piloto_ciego wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good. I wish we would kill 100% of the "jobs" out there and we could all start working on the things that we want instead of spending the best years of our lives doing stupid bullshit. We should work to eliminate all work. That should be something we strive towards. The end of work you don't want to do.

I don't think it's possible to infer your definition of "work" from what you wrote. If you are doing something, that's work. You are against doing things you don't like. That's a different topic.

You're trying to argue semantics here, and I am saying, "none of that matters, people shouldn't have to do things that they don't want to do in order to justify their right to survive."

There, is that better? You shouldn't have to do a job you hate (or indeed a job you love) to have the right to continue to exist in our society, and that's the current state of affairs more or less. You work, or society is happy to let you die. I want to end that.

Re: Let's celebrate work that is 100% human-made

#92

Post by sublinear »

piloto_ciego wrote: post #91
sublinear wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's possible to infer your definition of "work" from what you wrote. If you are doing something, that's work. You are against doing things you don't like. That's a different topic.

You're trying to argue semantics here, and I am saying, "none of that matters, people shouldn't have to do things that they don't want to do in order to justify their right to survive." There, is that better? You shouldn't have to do a job you hate (or indeed a job you love) to have the right to continue to exist in our society, and that's the current state of affairs more or less. You work, or society is happy to le…

I'm not arguing semantics. I'm doing all the heavy lifting unpacking what you're trying to actually say.

Work is intrinsic to life because it's how you contribute back to the society that enables your continuation of life.

If I assume good faith then your disagreement simply doesn't make sense, but I'm starting to think you're arguing in bad faith. I'm tempted to call you entitled and antisocial, but that would surely end this discussion if I'm incorrect.

Re: Let's celebrate work that is 100% human-made

#94

Post by piloto_ciego »

sublinear wrote: post #92
piloto_ciego wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're trying to argue semantics here, and I am saying, "none of that matters, people shouldn't have to do things that they don't want to do in order to justify their right to survive." There, is that better? You shouldn't have to do a job you hate (or indeed a job you love) to have the right to continue to exist in our society, and that's the current state of affairs more or less. You work, or society is happy to le…

I'm not arguing semantics. I'm doing all the heavy lifting unpacking what you're trying to actually say. Work is intrinsic to life because it's how you contribute back to the society that enables your continuation of life. If I assume good faith then your disagreement simply doesn't make sense, but I'm starting to think you're arguing in bad faith. I'm tempted to call you entitled and antisocial, but that would surel…

It isn't though. Work isn't intrinsic to life. It is currently a requirement in our system because we made it one, but that doesn't mean that there's some law of the universe that says we must work (especially for others' benefit at significantly discounted rates) like dogs from the day we're capable of doing it to the day we die. There's plenty.

When I was flying for a living, I would have gladly continued to do it gratis if all my needs were met, but you can bet your ass I wouldn't be doing it on nights and weekends (except for when I was doing medevac work). Now as an entrepreneur and software person, I work for myself - this is optimal. But I certainly don't think I should have to to justify my right to continue sucking oxygen.

You shouldn't owe society something for simply existing. Full stop. Neither you nor I chose to instantiate into this environment, so us having some sort of moral duty to feed our heart and soul into the economic system is nonsense and we should eliminate that requirement for everyone.

If Bob Smith wants to spend all of his time wanking off, so be it, it's his life to spend. He shouldn't be compelled to work so he can have the continued right to exist. We can do better. We have the ability to.

Re: Let's celebrate work that is 100% human-made

#95

Post by willmarch »

xigoi wrote: post #87
vjvjvjvjghv wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is nothing wrong with walking or riding horses to get to where you need to go but I wouldn't celebrate that. It's a nice hobby bit not efficient. The same will probably happen to most of "human made code". It's fun but doesn't make much sense economically.

Writing code by hand costs me zero money. If I were to use AI, I would have to pay thousands of dollars. How does that make more sense economically?

How much time does that investment free up for you to work in other areas with more impact than simply pressing keys and entering code by hand?

Re: Let's celebrate work that is 100% human-made

#96

Post by sublinear »

piloto_ciego wrote: post #94
sublinear wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not arguing semantics. I'm doing all the heavy lifting unpacking what you're trying to actually say. Work is intrinsic to life because it's how you contribute back to the society that enables your continuation of life. If I assume good faith then your disagreement simply doesn't make sense, but I'm starting to think you're arguing in bad faith. I'm tempted to call you entitled and antisocial, but that would surel…

It isn't though. Work isn't intrinsic to life. It is currently a requirement in our system because we made it one, but that doesn't mean that there's some law of the universe that says we must work (especially for others' benefit at significantly discounted rates) like dogs from the day we're capable of doing it to the day we die. There's plenty. When I was flying for a living, I would have gladly continued to do it…

> Work isn't intrinsic to life. It is currently a requirement in our system because we made it one, but that doesn't mean that there's some law of the universe that says we must work

So I guess I'm correct.

You can go live in the woods and find out how much work it is.

Re: Let's celebrate work that is 100% human-made

#97

Post by xigoi »

willmarch wrote: post #95
xigoi wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Writing code by hand costs me zero money. If I were to use AI, I would have to pay thousands of dollars. How does that make more sense economically?

How much time does that investment free up for you to work in other areas with more impact than simply pressing keys and entering code by hand?

I enjoy pressing keys and entering code; I find it to be the most efficient way to communicate with my computer. Why would I not spend my time doing something I enjoy?

Re: Let's celebrate work that is 100% human-made

#98

Post by willmarch »

xigoi wrote: post #97
willmarch wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much time does that investment free up for you to work in other areas with more impact than simply pressing keys and entering code by hand?

I enjoy pressing keys and entering code; I find it to be the most efficient way to communicate with my computer. Why would I not spend my time doing something I enjoy?

I thought you were talking about economic efficiency, not maximizing enjoyment. You can do anything you want with your time if you're not worried about economics, but that sort of contradicts your original statement.

Re: Let's celebrate work that is 100% human-made

#99

Post by piloto_ciego »

sublinear wrote: post #96
piloto_ciego wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't though. Work isn't intrinsic to life. It is currently a requirement in our system because we made it one, but that doesn't mean that there's some law of the universe that says we must work (especially for others' benefit at significantly discounted rates) like dogs from the day we're capable of doing it to the day we die. There's plenty. When I was flying for a living, I would have gladly continued to do it…

> Work isn't intrinsic to life. It is currently a requirement in our system because we made it one, but that doesn't mean that there's some law of the universe that says we must work So I guess I'm correct. You can go live in the woods and find out how much work it is.

I'm literally building a cabin in the woods lol, I'd suspect I'm far more aware of it than you are. I think we may have different definitions of work here? Or something? Or you're arguing in bad faith? Whatever.

Look man, you don't owe anyone anything for existing. Nor does anyone owe you anything. This idea that we have to grind down the best years of our lives into an apparatus that doesn't give a shit about us so that we can justify our right to keep breathing? That sucks. I want to end that. I think people should be able to do the things they want to do. I think we should make that a priority.

I mostly get to do the things I want to do and largely work for myself on projects I pick. I think everyone should have that opportunity. My wife does too - she's doing exactly what she wants in life. I think that's a good thing, and I think everyone should have the opportunity to live like that.

And if they don't want to do anything at all? I'm fine with that too.

Re: Let's celebrate work that is 100% human-made

#100

Post by sublinear »

piloto_ciego wrote: post #99
sublinear wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Work isn't intrinsic to life. It is currently a requirement in our system because we made it one, but that doesn't mean that there's some law of the universe that says we must work So I guess I'm correct. You can go live in the woods and find out how much work it is.

I'm literally building a cabin in the woods lol, I'd suspect I'm far more aware of it than you are. I think we may have different definitions of work here? Or something? Or you're arguing in bad faith? Whatever. Look man, you don't owe anyone anything for existing. Nor does anyone owe you anything. This idea that we have to grind down the best years of our lives into an apparatus that doesn't give a shit about us so…

I'm just going to quote my original comment from the top of this thread:

> I don't think it's possible to infer your definition of "work" from what you wrote. If you are doing something, that's work. You are against doing things you don't like. That's a different topic.

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