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Larry Ellison: "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we’re recording"

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Re: Larry Ellison: "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we’re recording"

#91

Post by breve »

afavour wrote: post #86
breve wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bryan Cantrill warns, "Do not fall into the trap of anthropomorphizing Larry Ellison. You need to think of Larry Ellison the way you think of a lawnmower. You don't anthropomorphize your lawnmower, the lawnmower just mows the lawn. You stick your hand in there and it'll chop it off, the end. You don't think 'oh, the lawnmower hates me' -- the lawnmower doesn't give a shit about you, the lawnmower can't hate you. Don'…

Eh. That quote conflates Ellison and Oracle and I don't think that's correct. I think there's a danger in just accepting that a human being is abhorrent. It _should_ outrage us that Ellison is the way he is. It's silly to think "the lawnmower hates me" because it isn't capable of hate. Ellison is capable of hate and it's not deluded to think he might hate you and I and want to control our lives.

You've fallen into the trap.

Re: Larry Ellison: "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we’re recording"

#92

Post by bpodgursky »

datsci_est_2015 wrote: post #84
bpodgursky wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you frame it this way in your mind you will be surprised when people pick surveillance over public disorder. If you don't like that world (I don't either) you can't bury your head in the sand about the problems it is solving, you need a "No, but... " framing where you give answers that actually work. There is a ground-level appeal of the China-style panopticon because it delivers public order and clean streets. La…

> There is a ground-level appeal of the China-style panopticon because it delivers public order and clean streets. Does it? Japan is also famously clean, so maybe it’s the ethnic homogeneity? On the other hand, Singapore is very heterogeneous and clean, and eastern Kentucky is very homogenous and run-down. So maybe this whole attributing outcomes of society to singular factors isn’t very founded in science or reason…

Japan has historically been a clean and high-trust society.

China was a ground-level low-trust mess even 25 years ago, with fairly rampant fraud and theft by just about anyone you met on the street. That has completely changed — why? I don't think culture evolves that rapidly ex nihilo, when there's an obvious technology answer.

Re: Larry Ellison: "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we’re recording"

#93

Post by afavour »

jstummbillig wrote: post #53
jasonvorhe wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Google, Meta, etc. None of the big companies habe your interests at heart.

What a strange thing to say. Why would they? Do you have their interest at heart? Do you have the average persons interest at heart? Again: Why would you? That's by definition not how interests work. And that is roughly fine (albeit a kinder universe would be nice).

I'd argue that society ensures (or should ensure) that we, collectively, do have the average person's interest at heart. The problem is when billionaires like these effectively decide to opt out of society. Stop paying taxes, bend the political system to their will.

Even if you think of them as the most selfish people possible, billionaires ought to have the average person's interest at heart. Because once the country is full of average people who are unhappy with their lives it typically doesn't work out well for those with power.

Re: Larry Ellison: "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we’re recording"

#94

Post by bilbo0s »

poszlem wrote: post #60

"Intellectuals are naturally attracted by the idea of a planned society, in the belief that they will be in charge of it." — Roger Scruton

In this case though, the nerds are in charge of it. They created and own it.

I mean even the lawyers are subordinate to them at this point.

Re: Larry Ellison: "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we’re recording"

#95

Post by downrightmike »

EastLondonCoder wrote: post #71

I think the really dangerous part here is not just “surveillance bad”. It is that AI removes the labour cost that used to limit surveillance. CCTV was already a problem, but someone still had to watch it, search it, interpret it, escalate it. AI changes that. It makes surveillance searchable, scalable and administratively useful. The shift is from “you may be observed” to “your behaviour can be continuously machine-i…

Ellison was among several prominent tech billionaires and executives whose names were mentioned in the multi-million-page tranches of documents made public by the Department of Justice.

Re: Larry Ellison: "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we’re recording"

#96

Post by azan_ »

EastLondonCoder wrote: post #71

I think the really dangerous part here is not just “surveillance bad”. It is that AI removes the labour cost that used to limit surveillance. CCTV was already a problem, but someone still had to watch it, search it, interpret it, escalate it. AI changes that. It makes surveillance searchable, scalable and administratively useful. The shift is from “you may be observed” to “your behaviour can be continuously machine-i…

Man, just write your own comments yourself, no need to use AI-generated ones. You are making good point but the twitter-AI-slop style makes it really annoying to read.

Re: Larry Ellison: "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we’re recording"

#97

Post by aiaiaiaiai57 »

EastLondonCoder wrote: post #71

I think the really dangerous part here is not just “surveillance bad”. It is that AI removes the labour cost that used to limit surveillance. CCTV was already a problem, but someone still had to watch it, search it, interpret it, escalate it. AI changes that. It makes surveillance searchable, scalable and administratively useful. The shift is from “you may be observed” to “your behaviour can be continuously machine-i…

Uuuugh. The AI smell is strong on this comment. Please use AI for loads of things, but also pretty-please keep it out of inter-human discussions.

Re: Larry Ellison: "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we’re recording"

#98

Post by Barrin92 »

shawnhermans wrote: post #9

What really gets to me is how big tech isn't even pretending anymore to serve society. They clearly feel superior to the rest of us and entitled to rule.

and who can blame them, if we've learned anything from the last few years it's that the American people are utterly servile and passive when faced with these people, in fact they largely seem to crave their wannabe dictators.

In 2023 when Musk refused to sign a collective bargaining agreement with the Swedish IF Metall union, not only did the union resist, not only did other unions in Sweden resist, Scandinavian countries together boycotted supply chains including dock- and metalworkers in Denmark and Norway. What would they do in America? Give him money on Twitter to get a blue checkmark and hope he gives them five minutes of attention in a reply.

Re: Larry Ellison: "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we’re recording"

#99

Post by antonvs »

analognoise wrote: post #63
TwoNineA wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean ... One Rich Asshole Called Larry Ellison?

The asshole rot in tech goes much deeper than just Larry Ellison.

Perhaps, but there's only One Rich Asshole Called Larry Ellison.

Re: Larry Ellison: "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we’re recording"

#100

Post by anamexis »

aiaiaiaiai57 wrote: post #97
EastLondonCoder wrote: post #71

I think the really dangerous part here is not just “surveillance bad”. It is that AI removes the labour cost that used to limit surveillance. CCTV was already a problem, but someone still had to watch it, search it, interpret it, escalate it. AI changes that. It makes surveillance searchable, scalable and administratively useful. The shift is from “you may be observed” to “your behaviour can be continuously machine-i…

Uuuugh. The AI smell is strong on this comment. Please use AI for loads of things, but also pretty-please keep it out of inter-human discussions.

This does not read as AI to me at all
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