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A walking tour of surveillance infrastructure in Seattle (2020)

coveillance.org

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Re: A walking tour of surveillance infrastructure in Seattle (2020)

#91

Post by djeastm »

trbleclef wrote: post #37
Fogest wrote: post #33

I still feel so conflicted on things like the Flock cameras. On one hand I understand that they have the capability of incredibly enhancing the ability for police departments to solve more crimes. Especially things related to vehicle theft, they could likely track down your stolen vehicle very quickly especially if they have a wide network of cameras. However, my concern is always about the possibility for misuse. Ev…

What's that quote about essential Liberty and temporary Safety again...

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

But as we all know in context Franklin was talking about the Penn family wanting to literally purchase temporary safety from native American raids privately (rather than being taxed) and weakening the ability of the PA General Assembly to govern.

I'm guessing he'd probably be pro privacy, though.

Re: A walking tour of surveillance infrastructure in Seattle (2020)

#92

Post by sgustard »

lgats wrote: post #79
brk wrote: post #58

There are too many technical inaccuracies in this to take it serious (or to try and address them all here). Directionally it is fairly accurate, but the author clearly has very little knowledge of surveillance cameras, their capabilities, or even broadly how to identify ALPR vs. traffic control cameras (and similar nuances).

"The Acyclica device casts a fake Wi-Fi network and tracks phones that try to join" an incorrect start to a bunch of incorrect/outdated info

https://www.seattle.gov/documents/Departments/Tech/Acyclica_...

Re: A walking tour of surveillance infrastructure in Seattle (2020)

#93

Post by ryanisnan »

downrightmike wrote: post #89
nostromo wrote: post #72

I think this is just the new normal. My car was stolen in Seattle and it was found with the person driving it when he was pulled over by police. In the car he had paperwork with his name on it, a weapon, and his work uniform in the trunk with a name badge (he was a security guard - lol) along with a neighborhood witness. Despite a mountain of evidence, the prosecutors declined to press charges because without direct…

so cameras are useless, but everywhere

Right, just the worst of all possible worlds. Computer generated video is going to make this mess a whole lot worse too.

Re: A walking tour of surveillance infrastructure in Seattle (2020)

#95

Post by ryanisnan »

drnick1 wrote: post #88
titzer wrote: post #73

America needs to realize that this is absolutely not the land of the free anymore. The government and big business are in cahoots to screw you out of every cent they can and to make sure you're not about to commit some unspeakable act of terror, like hold up the wrong protest sign. Edit: case in point by https://www.techradar.com/pro/quote-of-the-day-by-oracle-co-...

Where do you suggest we move to then, China?

I think that's a bit of a false dichotomy. It should be possible to live in the US and resist the surveillance state. Keep fighting.

Re: A walking tour of surveillance infrastructure in Seattle (2020)

#96

Post by titzer »

Fogest wrote: post #84
titzer wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guffawed at "proper checks/balances". Since ICE brownshirts have been roaming around with masks and automatic weapons, abducting random people and even shooting some, you're at "checks/balances". What?

I'm not American, I never mentioned America, and these cameras are being installed across the world. Not everything is about America and a single government agency. Sometimes it is about the bigger picture when having discussions. I also disagree with your very biased wording of such a discussion and don't wish to go down this line of unproductive discussion.

The article was about Seattle and the surrounding discussion has been US-centric. I recognize it's a global problem but I don't think it's the same everywhere. We shouldn't just throw up our hands like "oh well."

Re: A walking tour of surveillance infrastructure in Seattle (2020)

#97

Post by hammock »

myrmidon wrote: post #13
smithkl42 wrote: post #10

I wonder what they mean by this? > The camera can have different ways of seeing encoded in it, including kinds of gazes that enforce social agreements about what kinds of behavior and people are considered “normal” The phrase "kinds of gazes" strikes me as the sort of thing that's only going to make sense to people trained in a very particular and idiosyncratic flavor of ethical critique. What a normal person sees he…

My best guess would be [[Surveillance cameras normalize/denormalize behavior in a way that is easily biased and undemocratic.]] It might e.g. direct the full force of law against a drunk urinating on a tree (easy to spot/classify), while tolerating vicious verbal attacks disguised by somewhat subdued body language (missing data/difficult to detect). Letting automated surveillance systems judge people will inevitably…

> tolerating vicious verbal attacks disguised by somewhat subdued body language (missing data/difficult to detect).

Almost all of these cameras have microphones as well. Not as difficult to detect as you may believe

Re: A walking tour of surveillance infrastructure in Seattle (2020)

#98

Post by emptybits »

saltyoldman wrote: post #52
emptybits wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps, depending on specific intent, credibility, and the nature of harm threatened. But since this is about surveillance, I hope that detection of verbal threats is not a goal of government surveillance because it's difficult to imagine how that could be accomplished without significant loss of privacy or other liberties.

I can see it in court now. Our AI monitoring system did indeed know about the threat to the building where 800 people died on Sunday. It says: " Agent: Voice to text detected: I have everything ready - all the XXX chemicals are ready in the van and I'm going to park in the 900 S Crap St now" Agent: Thread Level HIGH. Agent: Looking up local codes. Agent: Mayor signed SB-1238 in 2026 - no surveillance devices may be u…

Appreciate the pushback, saltyoldman. Yes, we want to respond to credible threats. And, as always, courts and law enforcement can invade privacy when there's reason to believe someone is worth surveilling. But we're talking here about widespread, extremely cheap, technically easy surveillance of potentially everyone at all times. That's the endgame that some commercial and government interests have in mind.

Would you agree that sometimes an uptick in theoretical safety is not worth a downtick of definite lost liberties?

Re: A walking tour of surveillance infrastructure in Seattle (2020)

#99

Post by hammock »

drnick1 wrote: post #88
titzer wrote: post #73

America needs to realize that this is absolutely not the land of the free anymore. The government and big business are in cahoots to screw you out of every cent they can and to make sure you're not about to commit some unspeakable act of terror, like hold up the wrong protest sign. Edit: case in point by https://www.techradar.com/pro/quote-of-the-day-by-oracle-co-...

Where do you suggest we move to then, China?

The countryside. Near-zero public surveillance, near-zero violent crime, and conservative sheriffs and juries who work to keep it that way.

Re: A walking tour of surveillance infrastructure in Seattle (2020)

#100

Post by hamdingers »

Lammy wrote: post #67

> Each surveillance technology in our field guide includes the following categories to help you “spot” surveillance technology in the wild One shouldn't trust their eyes alone to spot all the hidden cameras that private property owners love to have covering the streets. For example, it took me months to realize that a tenant in my own building has three cameras pointed down from the windows of their unit and can trac…

Many cheap camcorders have a "night vision" mode that is just as effective. Probably because those cheap camcorders and cheap security cameras are more or less the same under the hood.
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