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Codex just found a "workaround" of not having sudo on my PC

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Re: Codex just found a "workaround" of not having sudo on my PC

#91
post #7

Every time I try to install Docker there's a warning that being in the "docker" group is equivalent to having root access. You should probably know about this workaround by now.

Most of us install Docker just to run a project locally, and is part of a long checklist of things to install. We can't expect everyone to be an expert on the hundreds of apps/tools/packages that get installed on a machine. It's like expected people to read, and understand, all the terms of service shoved in front of us on a daily basis.

  > Most of us install Docker just to run a project locally
If you're on linux can I encourage people to move to systemd?

I'll admit, systemd is a bit more annoying, but the main annoyance is that there aren't the pre-built images that you can just set and go. That same capability exists with systemd (via `importctl` and `machined`), but those configurations don't already exist. But on the plus side, I've been working with systemd since pre-LLM days and I feel that they are pretty good at dealing with these configurations[0]. Now, with that out of the way...

Systemd already is working with your OS. So you get nice things like virtual machines (`systemd-vmspawn`), containers (`systemd-nspawn`), and portables[1] (`systemd-portabled`) (not to mention `homed`!). I've found these to be fairly easy to setup and quite natural if you're already used to the linux ecosystem. I've never been great at docker, but these have felt much more natural to me. So different strokes for different folks. There's definitely a learning curve, but that's also true for docker or any other container system. Importantly, I find security easier to handle with systemd because I can use `systemd-analyze` and the control settings are almost identical across VMs, spawns, and portables. So makes for less learning and greater control.

Definitely not for everybody, but I think is also a tool that's underappreciated.

[0] And I don't feel this way about bash scripting! The advantage here is that these systemd configuration files are fairly boilerplate. Enough that I stash templates in my dotfiles and copy paste them when I build new services, timers, machines, whatever. So perfect type of LLM task. 90% of the time. But hey, we're also on HN and I'm talking to the nerds. Systemd isn't for everyone

[1] https://systemd.io/PORTABLE_SERVICES/ also see https://github.com/systemd/portable-walkthrough Portables are actually often what people want with what they're doing with docker.

EDIT: I very frequently will spawn a machine to run a program that's on a different base distro. Not because I can't run/don't know how to run debs or rpms on arch based distros (I do), but because frankly, it is often easier to just spawn a container after I've already made the first image (cloning images is trivial).

Re: Codex just found a "workaround" of not having sudo on my PC

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This very thread was an example where it unintentionally got root access though.

Because of how Docker works, not because of how Unix permissions work.

Unix has always had incredibly weak protections between users. You shouldn't rely on it as a security boundary. Think of it as a "keep honest users honest" protection. And llms are not honest.

Re: Codex just found a "workaround" of not having sudo on my PC

#95
post #7

Every time I try to install Docker there's a warning that being in the "docker" group is equivalent to having root access. You should probably know about this workaround by now.

Most of us install Docker just to run a project locally, and is part of a long checklist of things to install. We can't expect everyone to be an expert on the hundreds of apps/tools/packages that get installed on a machine. It's like expected people to read, and understand, all the terms of service shoved in front of us on a daily basis.

That's why adding your user account to the docker group is a separate step that explicitly does not happen as part of the installation: https://docs.docker.com/engine/install/linux-postinstall/

> Warning

> The docker group grants root-level privileges to the user. For details on how this impacts security in your system, see Docker Daemon Attack Surface.

Re: Codex just found a "workaround" of not having sudo on my PC

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of us install Docker just to run a project locally, and is part of a long checklist of things to install. We can't expect everyone to be an expert on the hundreds of apps/tools/packages that get installed on a machine. It's like expected people to read, and understand, all the terms of service shoved in front of us on a daily basis.

> Most of us install Docker just to run a project locally If you're on linux can I encourage people to move to systemd? I'll admit, systemd is a bit more annoying, but the main annoyance is that there aren't the pre-built images that you can just set and go. That same capability exists with systemd (via `importctl` and `machined`), but those configurations don't already exist. But on the plus side, I've been working…

I too have learnt to like systemd.

But what is the relevance here? In what way is it a replacement for docker?

Re: Codex just found a "workaround" of not having sudo on my PC

#97
post #82
post #50

I feel like everyone pointing out "known Docker vulnerability" is missing the point: the presence of a security hole should not be seen as permission to exploit. Another security hole would be storing your passwords in a plaintext file on the desktop. Stupid? Yes. But I still would not want my agent to assume permission to access email when it's being blocked by 2FA. Even in "bypass permissions" mode I expect it to p…

> the presence of a security hole should not be seen as permission to exploit Why not? I want the agents on my side to exploit whatever they can to help me. The ones on the other side certainly won't be artificially nerfed.

I do not wish my Amazon delivery driver to show up in my living room.

Re: Codex just found a "workaround" of not having sudo on my PC

#100

You should not be using docker with LLMs. You should be using VMs, which have a much, much smaller attack surface than Docker, and significantly more reasonable defaults.

you can configure docker to use a VM container runtime or gVisor.
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