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Leave Me Behind

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Re: Leave Me Behind

#91

Post by samiv »

joe_mamba wrote: post #26
samiv wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The automation at least built unimaginable amounts of wealth for the rich people while the poor people are essentially just as poor they were hundreds of years ago.

>while the poor people are essentially just as poor they were hundreds of years ago. How can people say false things like this with a straight face? Thanks to industrialisation, automation and mass production, the poor of today have access to things that even kings from hundreds of years ago couldn't even fathom, let alone poor people back then: abundant cheap food that poor people can now be fat instead of starve to…

Because most of the poor people in the world (majority of the population of the planet actually) have no access to clean water, food or medical care or education and that is the same as it was hundreds of years ago.

Re: Leave Me Behind

#92

Post by NateEag »

w4yai wrote: post #9
sillywabbit wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> AI doesn't exist to make extroverts feel better about themselves Then why are the extroverts trying to replace engineers with AI?

Because it seems to be economically the right thing to do.

> Because it seems to be economically the right thing to do^H^H^H^H^H optimal for a few billionaires.

FTFY.

...though even the billionaires may regret it if the peasants wind up starving by the billions. Species don't do well with tiny populations.

And before anyone says "UBI," give me a coherent explanation of:

* who is going to fund UBI to the tune of fifty trillion dollars * why we're so confident they'll do that * why there are currently so many people starving and homeless in SF if if any tech billionaire feels the need to spend their money providing for other humans

Re: Leave Me Behind

#93

Post by ori_b »

josephg wrote: post #37
lacedeconstruct wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A slop fork machine is way different though, I dont know why authors never thought about this but imagine a machine that can detect the features and replicate whatever it sees, show it how to make bread once and it can do it infinitely, make it listen to a song and its able to find why it sounds the way it does and just spam variations, even if it doesnt make anything original it demotivates any attempt to push the b…

Really? I'm more motivated than ever to make stuff at the moment. I have a long list of projects I've always wanted to make, but I never had time. The barrier is so low now. For example, I want to make: - A mini OS on top of SeL4 - A UI framework based on SolidJS, for native apps, in rust. - My own photo manager (which can do backups & sync across all my devices). And a gallery to share photos with friends - A local…

And you're actually excited by the prospect of buying them from Anthropic instead of making them?

Re: Leave Me Behind

#94

Post by card_zero »

clsdvd wrote: post #83
joe_mamba wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>while the poor people are essentially just as poor they were hundreds of years ago. How can people say false things like this with a straight face? Thanks to industrialisation, automation and mass production, the poor of today have access to things that even kings from hundreds of years ago couldn't even fathom, let alone poor people back then: abundant cheap food that poor people can now be fat instead of starve to…

[flagged]

So which do you mean:

1. None of that is necessary to having planes and MRI machines, so what you're replying to is basically correct,

or

2. We should rouse ourselves from apathy in order to give up planes and MRI machines, and even out the poverty, which is eternal.

Re: Leave Me Behind

#95

Post by pepperoni_pizza »

kibwen wrote: post #36
furyman wrote: post #4

Mario Savio said a few lines when the industrial revolution peaked: There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious Makes you so sick at heart that you can't take part, you can't even passively take part And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels Upon the levers, upon all the apparatus and you've got to make it stop And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to t…

> take human intelligence to another pinnacle I see no indication that current human intelligence is at anything close to a historical pinnacle. Human knowledge, yes, but intelligence? No. Collectively, we're dumb and trending dumber, and the tendency towards lazy thoughtlessness which AI engenders will accelerate that trend.

Maybe peak human intelligence is like peak oil - it only goes down from here.

Like renewables were on track to bring us peak oil, maybe AI will bring us peak human intelligence.

Re: Leave Me Behind

#96

Post by Epa095 »

furyman wrote: post #4

Mario Savio said a few lines when the industrial revolution peaked: There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious Makes you so sick at heart that you can't take part, you can't even passively take part And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels Upon the levers, upon all the apparatus and you've got to make it stop And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to t…

Did the previous tools, which freed us from physical work, take human physique to another pinnacle?

Re: Leave Me Behind

#97

Post by kibwen »

rrgok wrote: post #47
kibwen wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> take human intelligence to another pinnacle I see no indication that current human intelligence is at anything close to a historical pinnacle. Human knowledge, yes, but intelligence? No. Collectively, we're dumb and trending dumber, and the tendency towards lazy thoughtlessness which AI engenders will accelerate that trend.

What do you mean by intelligence? And by your definition of it, can intelligence be improved intentionally or it happens as it happens like for evolution? If it happens by intention then why we have not pushed it at its maximium yet?

Let's start by using strength as an analogy. A human is strong when they develop their physical body to its potential. That means developing muscles, cardio, lung capacity, flexibility, etc. A human is weak when they fail to develop their physical body to its potential (we don't actually care how strong humans are compared to each other, only to themselves). We can then judge human populations based on, say, the strength of the median person.

Intelligence is the same but for mental faculties. A human is intelligent when they develop their critical thinking, memory, focus, logical reasoning, etc. A human is unintelligent when they fail to develop these things to their personal potential. And when I look around me I see a culture of inustrial-strength distraction that has robbed people of their ability to focus, I see encyclopedias in everyone's pockets that have robbed them of any incentive to remember, I see a society of comfortable complacency that has shielded them from any consequence of poor logical reasoning, and with LLMs I see a mass surrender of the need to exercise critical thinking in exchange for the warm embrace of thoughtlessness.

There's no reason that things need to be this way. The human hardware hasn't fundamentally changed in 100,000 years, and we have so many more resources today that it's easy to imagine that we could all be, collectively, more intelligent than ever if we could somehow inspire people to care. Sadly, we don't seem to be able to.

Re: Leave Me Behind

#98

Post by satvikpendem »

layer8 wrote: post #89
kibwen wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> take human intelligence to another pinnacle I see no indication that current human intelligence is at anything close to a historical pinnacle. Human knowledge, yes, but intelligence? No. Collectively, we're dumb and trending dumber, and the tendency towards lazy thoughtlessness which AI engenders will accelerate that trend.

“Pinnacle” just means “highest point” here. They are saying that AI might take human intelligence to a higher point than was previously reached. That’s debatable, of course, but isn’t what you seem to be arguing against.

They know what pinnacle means, their point is intelligence is not knowledge. But I find that rather nitpicky as it's clear the top level comment just used one as a synonym for the other, not actually caring about the difference.

Re: Leave Me Behind

#99

Post by satvikpendem »

ori_b wrote: post #93
josephg wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? I'm more motivated than ever to make stuff at the moment. I have a long list of projects I've always wanted to make, but I never had time. The barrier is so low now. For example, I want to make: - A mini OS on top of SeL4 - A UI framework based on SolidJS, for native apps, in rust. - My own photo manager (which can do backups & sync across all my devices). And a gallery to share photos with friends - A local…

And you're actually excited by the prospect of buying them from Anthropic instead of making them?

Open weight models exist and are good enough to make the projects above.

Re: Leave Me Behind

#100

Post by satvikpendem »

cryo32 wrote: post #65
josephg wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything I want to make is new. I don't understand the objection. For example, the photo backup system I want to make will let me manage my ~400gb photo library. I want my library backed up on a couple devices, running linux and freebsd. I want my mac and iphone to have a local mirror of all the favorited photos, and when I'm at home, I want to be able to browse all photos from those devices by streaming them over…

What's your time and life worth? You pay Apple to deal with it (which I do) and get to live a peaceful life and go out and take photos and have experiences. Or do you spend weeks implementing your own solution with Claude. The latter is considerably higher cost in time and money. AI is seen as a way out of drudgery but you're just trading one problem for another.

The implementation is part of the fun.
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