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Don't Roll Your Own

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Re: Don't Roll Your Own

#91

Post by iainmerrick »

jason_oster wrote: post #75
ladberg wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you not believe developers should be paid for the work they do? And if not, what do you think the majority of people on this forum do?

Not the GP, but to me this case feels like extortion. I have the same problem with paying for extensions like Dark Reader, DeArrow, and any ad blockers. None of these apps should exist in the first place. They were created because the default state of the web is barbaric. And some developers have the gall to charge for the luxury of making the experience tolerable? And yet, I've paid for every one of these.

Write your own extension, then, and make it cheaper than the others -- or free!

Re: Don't Roll Your Own

#92

Post by iainmerrick »

poisonborz wrote: post #84
tiltowait wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Applications like Google Docs would be impossible without each of the four things you listed being available. I was already in favor of banning it. You don't have to keep trying to convince me. Okay, snark off. But as someone who dislikes the proliferation of "web apps", I'd be perfectly happy to see Google Docs and others die off if it meant we moved back to real, locally run applications.

To the walled garden app stores? On most platforms web is the only uncensored way to deliver apps.

Right -- like the famous zinger about democracy, Google Docs is the worst implementation of collaborative word processing except for all the others that have been tried.

Re: Don't Roll Your Own

#93

Post by dag100 »

worthless-trash wrote: post #87
kevmo314 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Management wants you to want to have an experience.

nobody asked management.

And management asked nobody, and then did it anyway.

Your preferences are unusual. Most people either don't care or prefer flashiness over consistency.

It's something I've come to realise about the why the world is the way it is. Yes, to a certain extent it is because of locally maximal power structures and hierarchies propagating - but it is also because, taken as a whole, people are really just like that. A single politician may be corrupt, but that does not mean that most people, if taking their place, would not be as or more corrupt. Management sucks, yes - but that doesn't mean that most engineers who become managers wouldn't act the same way. You and I may prefer consistency over flashiness, but the majority of the world couldn't care less. So flashiness and "experiences" win.

Re: Don't Roll Your Own

#94

Post by okandship »

the split between documents and apps explains a lot of the pain here. if a page mostly presents content, hijacking selection, scroll, or copy should be treated as a regression

Re: Don't Roll Your Own

#95

Post by iamalizard »

iainmerrick wrote: post #90
jason_oster wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the extreme end, a web app can do all of its own rendering in a canvas with WebGL/WebGPU. Some apps do exactly this: Figma, Google Maps, Google Docs. Just to name a few. (edit: Earlier I claimed PDFjs uses canvas, but it does not. I was confusing it with Google Docs [1].) It's a thing you can do. But it is very bad for extensions and extension developers for the same reasons that Java applets, Flash, and Shockwave…

I’m glad the era of Flash games existed. I’m glad it’s now possible to do all the same stuff in standard JS.

Why are HTML5/JS games so much laggier and buggier than Flash games?

Maybe it's not due to differences in the technologies used. I can imagine it's because less people make these games and spend less time per game to optimize it. Years ago there were thousands of flash games of each genre, a lot of them very well made, likely optimized for speed, pure works of art. Now I see the same 100 HTML5 games on all the sites, maybe reskinned a bit. I don't think we'll ever have in terms of quality as what was available on Kongregate or Armor Games.

I might download an old browser with Flash and some games. Years ago there was a collection of a few TB of Flash games, hope it's still around. Maybe some games that required network will not work, but most didn't.

Re: Don't Roll Your Own

#96

Post by alsetmusic »

dag100 wrote: post #93
worthless-trash wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

nobody asked management.

And management asked nobody, and then did it anyway. Your preferences are unusual. Most people either don't care or prefer flashiness over consistency. It's something I've come to realise about the why the world is the way it is. Yes, to a certain extent it is because of locally maximal power structures and hierarchies propagating - but it is also because, taken as a whole, people are really just like that . A single…

A nerd podcast that I listen to was talking about shells and touched on Spaceship for zshell. One of the hosts talked about how having multi-line prompts became possible in the 90s, how it isn't new, but how packaging it up is new and now it's a trend for some people.

I'd previously found it interesting enough to try out for half a day. I've been back to my regular boring prompt ever since. Humans are attracted to shiny things. I innately understand why stuff like this is popular, even if I don't understand it intellectually / psychologically (I tried it because it looked cool; it didn't stick; what's different? I don't know, but I could talk a lot about it without really having a structured point.)

Yes, we've broken the intent of the browser. I'm sure there are better examples, but for me it was Google Maps. Oh my goodness, have you ever seen such a thing? It had to be impossible, but they did it. And from there, nothing was safe.

I don't think we can put the genie back in the bottle. There are things we can believe shouldn't be allowed in the browser. But breaking them would break things that people rely upon. Only pushing further to native apps (which I actually like on my desktop computer, phone is a walled garden) would make it possible and that's annoying as hell) could make it possible. Rambling. Just woke up. Please forgive.

Re: Don't Roll Your Own

#97

Post by paulryanrogers »

iainmerrick wrote: post #91
jason_oster wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the GP, but to me this case feels like extortion. I have the same problem with paying for extensions like Dark Reader, DeArrow, and any ad blockers. None of these apps should exist in the first place. They were created because the default state of the web is barbaric. And some developers have the gall to charge for the luxury of making the experience tolerable? And yet, I've paid for every one of these.

Write your own extension, then, and make it cheaper than the others -- or free!

I think their point is the answer to a problem a gapping wound isn't cheaper or even free bandaids.

We already have regulations for accessibility and advertising. Yet they're weak in the US and rarely enforced.

Re: Don't Roll Your Own

#98

Post by iainmerrick »

iamalizard wrote: post #95
iainmerrick wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m glad the era of Flash games existed. I’m glad it’s now possible to do all the same stuff in standard JS.

Why are HTML5/JS games so much laggier and buggier than Flash games? Maybe it's not due to differences in the technologies used. I can imagine it's because less people make these games and spend less time per game to optimize it. Years ago there were thousands of flash games of each genre, a lot of them very well made, likely optimized for speed, pure works of art. Now I see the same 100 HTML5 games on all the sites,…

Why are HTML5/JS games so much laggier and buggier than Flash games?

I’m not sure that’s actually the case.

Steve Jobs argued in his “thoughts on Flash” letter that Flash was too buggy, insecure and resource-hungry for mobile platforms. I worked on Chrome around that time and the Flash plugin was definitely one of the biggest sources of problems.

I think all the stuff you’re complaining about is to do with business models and not really anything to do with the technology. I reckon if Flash were still around we’d probably be in much the same place we are now. People would be complaining about restaurant menus being written in Flash instead of plain old HTML, etc etc.

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